John Piper - Why I abominate the prosperity gospel

[~candice~]

I got saved in a prosperity gospel type church. They had a lot of fruit, I saw a lot of people get saved despite the doctrine. If there is any comfort for you Botz, it is that He will not lose one of His own, and it is possible, and it happens, that people move from the shallowness of the prosperity gospel to the wonderful depth of His Word.

That's a very good point. Jesus is bigger than their errors, and if these churches make it easier from some people to consider Christ, then perhaps that's a good thing.

I think it is by the grace of G-d that people continue to come to know Jesus in these places...but I am sure there will be a reckoning as the errors being taught seem to be

infiltrating almost every non-denominal congregation because of lack of discernment, and because the errors are hidden amongst some good solid biblical

teaching....it is because of the subtlety or chameleon appearance that they have gained such ground....it is time to fight back against these errors.

Well, I'm not saying it's not time to fight back, what I am saying is that Jesus has never lost one of His own.

FWIW, I currently attend a church that is a mixed bag, some good and some bad theology, and I've been lead by the Lord to remain here and I pray to be an influence. I don't know how to do it, other than to act in accordance with the leading of the Spirit.

[OneLight]

I got saved in a prosperity gospel type church. They had a lot of fruit, I saw a lot of people get saved despite the doctrine. If there is any comfort for you Botz, it is that He will not lose one of His own, and it is possible, and it happens, that people move from the shallowness of the prosperity gospel to the wonderful depth of His Word.

That's a very good point. Jesus is bigger than their errors, and if these churches make it easier from some people to consider Christ, then perhaps that's a good thing.

I think it is by the grace of G-d that people continue to come to know Jesus in these places...but I am sure there will be a reckoning as the errors being taught seem to be

infiltrating almost every non-denominal congregation because of lack of discernment, and because the errors are hidden amongst some good solid biblical

teaching....it is because of the subtlety or chameleon appearance that they have gained such ground....it is time to fight back against these errors.

Well, I'm not saying it's not time to fight back, what I am saying is that Jesus has never lost one of His own.

FWIW, I currently attend a church that is a mixed bag, some good and some bad theology, and I've been lead by the Lord to remain here and I pray to be an influence. I don't know how to do it, other than to act in accordance with the leading of the Spirit.

That may be all He asks. We never know how we influence people. Saturday, a woman came to me that I had not seem in many years, when she was very young. She came and thanked me for taking her to church and telling her that God did not care what she she wore to church (they were poor), but cared about a relationship with her. She is now following Christ. I had forgotten all about taking her to church when she was a child, but how I allowed Christ to work through me brought her to the point of accepting the truth.

[Botz]

There is a certain prosperity teacher whose eyes in particular immediately send up a red flag...and I don't think it is my imagination, or just a difference in physical make-up because

they really seem to be....er....serpent-like. If eyes truly are a window to the soul, and I am seeing correctly, then what I see others must also see, and what is revealed is scary...

or do others just ignore such things, and think his eyes are unusual, but also kind and compassionate. I apologise if it seems I am making a personal inference, that is not my

intention...I am just curious to see if I am alone in my observations...I realise my sight is like the 'ol' grey mare', and ain't what it used to be unfortunately. Botz

[OneLight]

There is a certain prosperity teacher whose eyes in particular immediately send up a red flag...and I don't think it is my imagination, or just a difference in physical make-up because

they really seem to be....er....serpent-like. If eyes truly are a window to the soul, and I am seeing correctly, then what I see others must also see, and what is revealed is scary...

or do others just ignore such things, and think his eyes are unusual, but also kind and compassionate. I apologise if it seems I am making a personal inference, that is not my

intention...I am just curious to see if I am alone in my observations...I realise my sight is like the 'ol' grey mare', and ain't what it used to be unfortunately. Botz

I look at Copeland this way. His eyes set me back.

[stacey c]

Well I came out of a Prosperity Church after many many years of deception and control, and you dont see it until you do walk away.

The Pastor was very dynamic, charming but also very controling. I wont go into alot of details because one I dont have the time but two I dont wish to gossip, and I do still have a deep seated bitterness that rears its ugly head once this topic is involved.

Needless to say that most people who come out of this type of church are very hurt and bitter and its shame. Dont get me wrong there was some awesome teachings and fruit that was produced.

But 2 things opened my eyes and made me leave

1 The pastors right hand came to me on Pastor's authority and told me I was cursed because I had unbelief because I didnt have a over flow of money, mind you I was a widow who worked in their pre-school 40 to 50 hours a week to make ends meet for me and my 6 kids, and I did tithe religously 10% every week.

2 Several months later I had a new fiance and we had gotten into a financial situation where I asked for a loan against my paychecks, I was told that would be fine on the condition I left my husband as pastor didnt like him.

I have not returned since, and my husband is now very bitter against church as this was his first expierience in church as an adult.

The damage they do is very deep rooted and spiritually devastating.

[Guest]

Well I came out of a Prosperity Church after many many years of deception and control, and you don't see it until you do walk away.

The Pastor was very dynamic, charming but also very controlling. I wont go into alot of details because one I don't have the time but two I don't wish to gossip, and I do still have a deep seated bitterness that rears its ugly head once this topic is involved.

Needless to say that most people who come out of this type of church are very hurt and bitter and its shame. Don't get me wrong there was some awesome teachings and fruit that was produced.

But 2 things opened my eyes and made me leave

1 The pastors right hand came to me on Pastor's authority and told me I was cursed because I had unbelief because I didn't have a overflow of money, mind you I was a widow who worked in their pre-school 40 to 50 hours a week to make ends meet for me and my 6 kids, and I did tithe religiously 10% every week.

2 Several months later I had a new fiance and we had gotten into a financial situation where I asked for a loan against my paychecks, I was told that would be fine on the condition I left my husband as pastor didn't like him.

I have not returned since, and my husband is now very bitter against church as this was his first experience in church as an adult.

The damage they do is very deep rooted and spiritually devastating.

Praying~!

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Mark 10:6-9

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Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

There is a certain prosperity teacher whose eyes in particular immediately send up a red flag...and I don't think it is my imagination, or just a difference in physical make-up because

they really seem to be....er....serpent-like. If eyes truly are a window to the soul, and I am seeing correctly, then what I see others must also see, and what is revealed is scary...

or do others just ignore such things, and think his eyes are unusual, but also kind and compassionate. I apologise if it seems I am making a personal inference, that is not my

intention...I am just curious to see if I am alone in my observations...I realise my sight is like the 'ol' grey mare', and ain't what it used to be unfortunately....

He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye, and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him. Proverbs 28:22

And A Reality Check

And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you; 1 Thessalonians 4:11

[Botz]

There is a certain prosperity teacher whose eyes in particular immediately send up a red flag...and I don't think it is my imagination, or just a difference in physical make-up because

they really seem to be....er....serpent-like. If eyes truly are a window to the soul, and I am seeing correctly, then what I see others must also see, and what is revealed is scary...

or do others just ignore such things, and think his eyes are unusual, but also kind and compassionate. I apologise if it seems I am making a personal inference, that is not my

intention...I am just curious to see if I am alone in my observations...I realise my sight is like the 'ol' grey mare', and ain't what it used to be unfortunately. Botz

I look at Copeland this way. His eyes set me back.

What ever made you think I meant him bro?

[Botz]

Well I came out of a Prosperity Church after many many years of deception and control, and you dont see it until you do walk away.

The Pastor was very dynamic, charming but also very controling. I wont go into alot of details because one I dont have the time but two I dont wish to gossip, and I do still have a deep seated bitterness that rears its ugly head once this topic is involved.

Needless to say that most people who come out of this type of church are very hurt and bitter and its shame. Dont get me wrong there was some awesome teachings and fruit that was produced.

But 2 things opened my eyes and made me leave

1 The pastors right hand came to me on Pastor's authority and told me I was cursed because I had unbelief because I didnt have a over flow of money, mind you I was a widow who worked in their pre-school 40 to 50 hours a week to make ends meet for me and my 6 kids, and I did tithe religously 10% every week.

2 Several months later I had a new fiance and we had gotten into a financial situation where I asked for a loan against my paychecks, I was told that would be fine on the condition I left my husband as pastor didnt like him.

I have not returned since, and my husband is now very bitter against church as this was his first expierience in church as an adult.

The damage they do is very deep rooted and spiritually devastating.

Hi Stacey,

I think the whole control aspect of leadership is found throughout all sorts of Fellowships at times...and this, like you say can have devastating results.

I understand your reluctance to gossip....I do think that there are times to be upfront and real about things, and to be able to express what one feels out of a pure heart without

fear or guilt hindering voicing concerns and things that trouble us...there is a big difference between gossip which seeks to deviously and secretly tear down and condemn people

and discussing with friends certain things that have come to light....that is why those in leadership need to be full of the Spirit, solid in Scripture, of a good character and answerable

to others, including those they serve. Whenever there is an element of fear that motivates the way we do things...it usually doesn't initiate from G-d.

May G-d lead you to a place where your soul can be restored and healed, and that you can know the love of G-d poured into your heart, and may your husband come know a freedom

from the bitterness that has taken a hold....and come to have a more beneficial encounter with other Believers.

In Messiah. Botz

[OneLight]

There is a certain prosperity teacher whose eyes in particular immediately send up a red flag...and I don't think it is my imagination, or just a difference in physical make-up because

they really seem to be....er....serpent-like. If eyes truly are a window to the soul, and I am seeing correctly, then what I see others must also see, and what is revealed is scary...

or do others just ignore such things, and think his eyes are unusual, but also kind and compassionate. I apologise if it seems I am making a personal inference, that is not my

intention...I am just curious to see if I am alone in my observations...I realise my sight is like the 'ol' grey mare', and ain't what it used to be unfortunately. Botz

I look at Copeland this way. His eyes set me back.

What ever made you think I meant him bro?

Oh, you meant him?? Who would ever know??