Say What?

[Dak]

I just want to say my thoughts on this, and I don't mean to criticize anyone....

I agree that studying the Bible in its original languages is very good. Personally, however, unless one means to be a Bible scholar, I feel that this is already too much. A study of a good and trustworthy Bible translation, in clear English, like the ESV and NKJV, is enough for me. All the little details, all the different shades of meanings... I leave to God to explain to me, if he wishes, in my daily walk with him. After all, our time here on earth is limited, and we have to spend it wisely, so that we can serve God all the better.

And so my reply to OneLight in the original post, if I may:

Don't worry, Brother, if you cannot understand most of the Hebrew and Greek words used in these forums. It's not that important

I appreciate your concern. The question arose because we had members who would ofter use these terms when posting. **I felt it important to seek to fully understand what the person was saying so I could properly reply.** Though I believe understanding how a word is used in scripture is very important to understanding what you are reading, I don't spend my time studying a language I will never use. I do often look up how a word was used in Greek or Hebrew.

On your statement I have emphasized:

I haven't considered that, and I think you're right that it's important to understand what they are saying, if you intend to reply....

But think about this please: In communication, it is the responsibility of the writer/speaker to consider his audience and to make sure that his message can be clearly and fully understood by the reader/listener as much as possible. If he fails in this responsibility, and therefore fails to make himself understood, then it's his fault, and it's not up to the receivers of his message to make up for his shortcomings. Asking them, even obliging them, to look up dictionaries to find the meanings of his obscure words, and in different languages besides, is, in my opinion (though I know authorities in communication will back me up), a very bad practice.

Most of us here in these forums are general readers only, not specialists, say in the Hebrew and Greek languages. Each poster then should consider this, and refrain from using jargons only a few can understand. Or if using such words cannot be avoided, then their meanings should already be provided, like "Yeshua (Jesus)."

Again, I appreciate your concern, and I do agree that it is the responsibility of the writer to reach the reader, but unfortunately, there are those who like to "sound smart" or "prove their intelligence" by posting in ways that are unclear to the normal reader. Having to moderate the threads, as I do, I also have to understand what is being said. We are looking at this from two different points of view.

God Bless,

Alan

I didn't know you're a moderator until just very recently...

And so yeah...

[cristianprince67]

Yeah I don't know anything about Greek or Hebrew names either so that would help.

[Wildstar]

There has been posts when those who have studied the Hebrew roots use names I am not familiar with. I do know Yeshua, but I am not familiar with haMelekh or Yochanan. Here is an example for a thread where Retrobyter posted the following:

No, Marv, they were RICH and FULL when Yeshua` was there! They had great opportunity and a great promise of the impending Kingdom with the presence of haMelekh, the KING! All they had to do was what He said to them after Yochanan was put in prison, "Repent and believe the gospel!" or "Change your thinking 180 degrees and believe the good news (which you already know from Isa. 52:7)!" They were not desolate at the time until Yeshua` gave up on them in Matt. 23:38. Just what do you think "desolate" means, anyway?

This is just one instance where I was at a loss. There have been many more in the past few months. It is good that people can communicate in this way, and know what is being discussed. Yet, I am at a loss when names that I have not heard of before are being used. For this reason, I was wondering if it was possible to create a list of names people use and who they are referring to.

Who knows ... maybe I am the only one who finds himself scratching his head when trying to follow a post.

 

I think it's up to he person communicating to explain to you what you will understand.  Ifthey use a bunch of different names you aren't familiar with ask them to not do that.  Otherwise, meh doesn't matter.  Just because you know the definition or word of something in the original language doesn't mean that is how it is supposed to be applied by how they use such a word or whatever.  I like to think the translators tried their best to apply them in the best way they can be

[pauluk3]

 

 

 

As I read through posts written by those who have a far greater knowledge of Greek and Hebrew names then I, I often wonder how many other users here have no real idea who people are taking about. At times, I can give a good guess, but that is only an assumption on my part, and i don't like to assume. I am wondering if there can be a sort of dictionary for names pinned for those of us who are not as gifted? I don't mind doing the work, organizing the information, if people would supply the information....

Are You Ever In For A Treat And For A Little Confusion Too

From Adonai to Yahweh A Glossary of God’s Names

An Introduction to the Names Yehoshua/Joshua, Yeshua, Jesus and Yeshu by Kai Kjær-Hansen

List Of Over 2,500 Bible Names

The Etymology And History Of First Names - Biblical Names

And This Brother's Whole Site Is An Interesting Look At One Man's Journey The Names Of God

 

Thanks brother Joe for all those links! We will have to pin those somewhere!

 

Yes, please do! If you don't see me for awhile, it is probably due to being on one or more of these sites.

 

e

[Righttruth]

More clarification needed

[Retrobyter]

On November 20, 2011 at 2:14 PM, OneLight said:

There has been posts when those who have studied the Hebrew roots use names I am not familiar with. I do know Yeshua, but I am not familiar with haMelekh or Yochanan. Here is an example for a thread where Retrobyter posted the following:

 

 

This is just one instance where I was at a loss. There have been many more in the past few months. It is good that people can communicate in this way, and know what is being discussed. Yet, I am at a loss when names that I have not heard of before are being used. For this reason, I was wondering if it was possible to create a list of names people use and who they are referring to.

 

Who knows ... maybe I am the only one who finds himself scratching his head when trying to follow a post.

Shabbat shalom, OneLight.

I am SO SORRY, Alan! I had no idea you were so lost on these two Hebrew words!

HaMelekh, spelled hei-(patach)-mem-(segol)-lamed-(segol)-khaf-sofit, is the Hebrew title meaning "king" with the "ha-" prefix attached that is the definite article ("the").

Therefore, "HaMelekh" (Hebrew) = "The King" (English).

Also, "HaMelekh Yisra'eel" (Hebrew) = "The King of Israel" (English).

"Yochanan" is a variation of the Hebrew version of the name "John," "Yowchaanaan," spelled "yod-(cholem, with or without vav)-chet-(qamets)-nun-(qamets)-nun-sofit." The name "John" has several different spellings in other languages that many do not realize are related to "John": Yohann, Johann, Jahnn, Shawn, Ivan, Sean, Juan, and even Giovanni. For an amazing list, one can check out http://www.behindthename.com/name/john/related. It's really amazing! On the other hand, MANY names are like that. Try using the same site with "Mary!"

Anyway, I would be HAPPY to help you compile such a name dictionary! Just tell me how you'd like to start. See, I believe that we ALL need to learn Hebrew since it is the mother tongue of the children of Israel, and Yeshua` will fulfill His role prophesied as the King of Israel, both during the Millennium and in the Eternal State. It was HIS mother tongue, and I believe that it will be the language of His Kingdom. It certainly WON'T be English!

Furthermore, every name in Scripture has a meaning, usually to mark some event or wish for the individual at that person's birth.

Also, William Shakespeare once said: "There is no sound so sweet as the sound of one's own name." If someone came up to Solomon in the Kingdom and addressed him as "Solomon," he might ask in a puzzled way, "Are you talking to me?" His name in Hebrew is "Shlomoh." Does "Solomon" sound like "Shlomoh?" Not much!

How much time of the Millennium do YOU want to spend in remedial work? After the Resurrection, even in our glorified bodies, we will NOT have "perfect knowledge!" There's nothing in the Scriptures that promises that. We will have to learn much as we do today. We may learn faster and with better recall, but we will still have to LEARN! What you don't know now that may be important will have to be learned then! How much easier will our transition be into His Kingdom within our roles if we learn some basics here first?

[Retrobyter]

On November 29, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Bold Believer said:

I heartily recommend Blue Letter Bible (BlueLetterBible.org) for study. It has a lot of study tips that are right at your fingertips.

 

Here are some phrases, terms and names that may help with those pesky Biblical languages.

 

Yeshua: Jesus (Hebrew) (literally 'salvation')

 

Iesous: Jesus (Greek)

 

Moschiach: Messiah (H)

 

Meschiach: also Messiah (slightly different transliteration spelling in Hebrew)

 

ha Moschiach: the Messiah (H)

 

Christos or Christou: Christ (G)

 

(Note: Messiah and Christos both mean the same thing, anointed one)

 

Melech/melekh: King (H)

 

ha: Hebrew for 'the'

 

olam ha ba: the world to come (H)

 

ruach: spirit (H)

 

kodesh: holy (H)

 

Ruach ha Kodesh: Spirit the Holy (Holy Spirit in Hebrew)

 

melech ha olam: King of the Universe or world (H)

 

Avi: father (H)

 

Pater: father (G)

 

Abram: the Hebrew patriarch before his conversion

 

Avram: same as Abram

 

Avrahim: Abraham (H)

 

Yusef: Joseph (Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic)

 

Miryam: Mary (H)

 

Moshe/Moishe: Moses (H)

 

Benyamin: son of the right hand, Benjamin

 

Yitzhak: Isaac (H)

 

Yakov: Jacob (Hebrew, but Russian and Slavic both use similar pronunciations)

 

Malach: messenger (H) but used to describe heavenly beings whom we call angels

 

Anyelos: messenger (G) the Greek equal of malach

 

Malachi: my messenger

 

kerubim: cherubim (H) a class of heavenly being

 

Michael/Mikhael/Mikhail: who is like God (H), the chief prince of holy angels, Mikhail is Russian, but sometimes you may find the name spelled in this manner

 

arche: (ar-kay) beginning or chief (G)

 

arche-anyelos: chief messenger (G)

 

kohen: priest (H)

 

Aharon: Aaron (H) Moshe's brother

 

Theos: God (G)

 

dorea: gift (G)

 

didomi: gifted (as from one to another) (G)

 

dilectos: a dialect (G)

 

glossai: a language (G)

 

shalom: peace (H)

 

Irene: peace (G) (ee-ree-nay)

 

(both shalom and irene refer to personal inner peace and not necessarily the absence of war)

 

shamayim: heavens (The 'im' on a Hebrew word is the equal of an 's' in English

 

Shema: Hear! (H)

 

Yisrael/Yisroel: Israel (H)

 

The Shema: from Deuteronomy 6, it is literally the words Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One God (Shema Yisrael, Adonai elohenu, Adonai Echad)

 

Eretz/Erets: land

 

eretz Yisrael: land (of) Israel (H)

 

ohr: light (H)

 

didaktos: teaching (G)

 

Navi: prophet (H)

 

Shem: the Hebrew word for 'name', but also a proper name in some cases

 

ha Shem: a basic name in Hebrew for God; literally "The Name", many religious Jews use this term to refer to God

 

YHVH, YHWH, or Yod Hin Vod Hin: the unspeakable Hebrew four letter name for God. YHWH is incorrect since there is no 'W' in Hebrew, but you will see it written in this way in some books. Using this term to a Jew is guaranteed to cause trouble, they consider using it taking God's name in vain, and many Orthodox consider it blasphemy.

 

Yehovah: a pitiful attempt to transliterate YHVH into something pronounceable.

 

Jehovah: an even more pitiful attempt of the above, a German transliteration of Yehovah

 

Adonai/Adonoi: Lord (H)

 

Baruch: praise or blessing (H)

 

Baruch ha Shem: bless the Name (or praise the Lord if you prefer) (H)

 

Logos: Greek for word, most precisely the word and the idea it conveys; Jesus is "the Logos" (John 1) or The Word

 

rhema: a spoken word (h-ray-mah) (G)

 

Yochanan: John (H)

 

Mattityahu: Matthew (H)

 

Lukas: Luke (G)

 

tzadik: righteous (H) (say tsah-deek)

 

El: God (H)

 

Elohim: gods (or The One True God depending upon the context of the sentence) (H)

 

El-Elyon: God Most High (H)

 

Elohenu: your God (most commonly heard as Adonai Elohenu)

 

Hopefully these will help you in sifting through the sometimes indecipherable morass of theological terms and phrases.

Shabbat shalom, Bold Believer.

I agree; BlueLetterBible is a very good site for believers who have little background in the Greek and Hebrew.

Just a few things I'd like to mention. First, with Hebrew, don't take the vowels too seriously. They will change based on several factors: If the word is a noun or a verb or an adjective, if the word is masculine or feminine (there is no neuter), the prepositions added as a prefix, and even the surrounding words and context can change the pronunciation of the word. It's the CONSONANTS that are important because ALL of the letters of the Hebrew alefbet are consonants. That's why IF I use them in the Hebrew spelling of a word, I will include them in parentheses.

Second, take transliterations into English with a grain of salt. Some are traditional; some are imprecise; and some are just plain incorrect. I've struggled with this for many years now. As of this date, there is no standard for transliteration from Hebrew into English. (I'd like to get one started, but do you know how hard it is for a particular ... ANYTHING ... to become accepted as a "universal standard?") Here's a case in point:

"Moshiach" or as written above, "Moschiach." (Why was the "c" added?) The original word in Hebrew is spelled "mem-shin-yod-chet." (M-SH-Y-CH.) With the typical vowel pointing added, the word is spelled "mem-(qamets)-shin-(chiriq)-yod-(patach)-chet." The "qamets" is the "aw" sound in "paw" which sounds somewhat like a short "o" as in the Brittish pronunciation of "hot." The transliteration scheme I like to use says that all English "O's" used in transliteration are LONG "O's" and that they are used exclusively for the translation of the Hebrew vowel "cholem," which has nearly the same sound. Therefore, I write "Maashiach" often shortened imprecisely to just "Mashiach" for brevity. (For the sake of completeness, the "chiriq" is transliterated to an "i" and is pronounced as the "ee" in "bee" or in an unstressed syllable sometimes as a short "i" as in "big." And, the "patach" is the "ah" sound in "father" transliterated as just an "a.")

Thus, I take exception of the spelling "Moshiach" and prefer "Maashiach" or at least "Mashiach," so as not to mispronounce the word too badly. A valuable transliteration scheme will help the English-speaking reader correctly pronounce the Hebrew word, even if he or she doesn't know what the word means. "Yisroel" is another such example. There is no long "O" in the word!

I should also add that "chet" is pronounced as the "ch" in the Scottish word "loch," NOT as in the word "chair!" Because there is no direct letter or letter combination in English that has this sound, the "chet" is sometimes transliterated as an "h" and sometimes as a "ch." This leads to confusion because the sound of the Hebrew letter "hei" IS the "h" sound and is ALWAYS transliterated as an "h." This is a problem with the transliteration scheme used in the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB). If you don't know the Hebrew spelling of a name, such as "Hevel," you may not be able to tell if this is a "hei" or a "chet." I always use the "ch" for a "chet" and an "h" for the "hei." And, it DOES make a difference! There is a difference, for instance, between the spellings of the names "Haran" and "Charan." "Haran" was the spelling of the name of one of two men, and it means "mountaineer." "Charan" was the spelling of the name of a place in Syria and means "parched." It's two different letters in Hebrew.

It's like the difference between "how" and "now" in English. The two letters may look somewhat the same, but they ARE different letters with different sounds and the words they form have two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT meanings! The "hei" and the "chet" in Hebrew look much the same, but they ARE different letters.

Also, when one learns the GRAMMAR of the Hebrew language, one will understand that "Yeshua`" does NOT mean "salvation"; it means "he will save."

Also, "olam" actually means an "age," neither "universe" nor "world."

There's more, but I'm tired, and I'm sure some of you are getting tired of reading all this, too.

[FresnoJoe]

The Hebrew Meaning of "Jesus"

The name "Jesus" is an Anglicized form of the Greek name Yesous found in the New Testament, which represented the Hebrew Bible name Yeshua ("Jeshua" in English Bibles; Ezra 2:2; Neh 7:7). Yeshua, in turn, was a shortened form of the name Yehoshua ("Joshua" in English Bibles). "Yehoshua" "Yehoshua" is a compound name consisting of two elements. (1) The prefix "Yeho–" is an abbreviation of the Tetragrammaton, God's Four-Letter Name: Yod-He-Vav-He or YHVH. The 4-Letter Name In the Hebrew Bible "Yeho-" is used at the beginning of certain proper names: Jehoshaphat, Jehoiachin, Jehonathan (the "J" was pronounced as "Y" in Medieval English). The suffix form of the Tetragrammaton is "-yah" ("-iah" in Greek, as in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Zechariah, or Halleluiah). (2) The second element of the name is a form of the Hebrew verb yasha which means to deliver, save, or rescue. Thus, linguistically, the name Yehoshua/Yeshua/Jesus conveys the idea that God (YHVH) delivers (his people). According to Matthew 1:21, "Yeshua" is the name God gave his Son. "Yeshua" in Ancient Hebrew   "Yeshua" in Modern Hebrew with vowel points   For more detail on the Hebrew behind the name "Jesus Christ," see Shem Yeshua Mashiach. For a long article on the Tetragrammaton HaShem—The Name. Also see the PDF tables of Hebrew-Aramaic transliteration. hebrew-streams.org http://www.hebrew-streams.org/frontstuff/jesus-yeshua.html   ~     Directory | Site Map | Explanation   Shem Yeshua Mashiach The Hebrew Roots of the Name “Jesus Christ”   "Yeshua" in Ancient Hebrew       The name "Jesus" is an Anglicized (English) form of the Greek name Yesous. In the first century Yesous represented the Hebrew name Yeshua, which in turn was a shortened form of the name Yehoshua.     Early Hebrew Bible1 Later Hebrew Bible2 LXX Greek (Septuagint) NT Greek Hebrew & Greek Transliteration Yeshoshua Yeshua Yesous (Iesous) Yesous (Iesous) English Bibles Joshua Jeshua Joshua Jesus, Joshua3 1 Exodus 17:9; Deuteronomy 34:9; Joshua 1:1 2 Ezra 2:2; Nehemiah 8:17; 2 Chronicles 31:15 3 Luke 3:29; Acts 7:45; Hebrews 4:8 The Hebrew name Yehoshua consists of two parts. (1) "Yeho—" is a shortened form of the Tetragrammaton [YHVH; in English Bibles: "the LORD"] when it is the first part of a name. (2) "—shua" is an abbreviated form of the verb yasha, which means "to save, rescue, or deliver." Thus the name Yehoshua means "the LORD saves or delivers." The New Testament reflects this Hebrew background in passages such as: She will bear a son; and you shall call his name Yeshua, for it is he who will save his people from their sins. (said by an angel; Matthew 1:21) There is salvation [Heb. yeshuah] in no one else; for there is no other Name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. (Acts 4:12) God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the Name which is above every name, that at the name of Yeshua ["the LORD saves or delivers"] every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11) I have come in my Father's Name . . . [Father] I have manifested Your Name to those whom you have given to me." (John 5:43; 17:6) An important point: "Yeshua" is the name God himself gave his son (Matt 1:21). The name (and title) Christ comes into English from the Greek Christos, an adjectival noun used in the 2nd-century B(CE) Greek Old Testament (Septuagint) for men and things that were "anointed" with fragrant oil or with the Pneuma (Ruach) of God. Leviticus 4:16 — The anointed priest [ho hiereus ho christos] shall bring in the blood . . . 1 Samuel 2:10 — The Lord . . . will exalt the horn of his anointed [christos]. 2 Samuel 23:1 — Faithful is David, the son of Jesse, and faithful is the man whom the Lord raised up to be (the) anointed [christos] of the God of Jacob. Psalm 2:2 — The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers gathered themselves together, against the Lord and against his anointed one [christos]. Daniel 9:25 — . . . from the going forth of the command for the answer and the building of Jerusalem until (the/an) Anointed [christos] leader there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks . . . In the Greek New Testament, the title Christos became so linked with Yeshua that it began to serve as his proper name: Messiah Yeshua. "Messiah" itself is an Anglicized (English) form of the Greek word Messias which is a Hellenized form of the Hebrew word Mashiach, and possibly the Aramaic Meshichah.   — Mashiach (Hebrew) Meshichah (Aramaic) Messias1 (Greek) Christos2 (Greek) Messiah     1 Used only at John 1:41; 4:25     2 Used some 528x in the NT [Top]         Directory | Site Map | Explanation HaShem: The Name hebrew-streams.org http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/hebrew/shem-yeshua.html

 

 

 

 

[Martyr212]

Thank you for the recommendations.  I am going to look into these for the proper translations suggested.  Have a great day!

[Martyr212]

Don't forget Mother's Day is May 8th!  Its early this year so don't forget MOM!!!  All moms, grandma's and all the special women in your life will appreciate your thoughtfulness on this special day which celebrates WOMEN.