Fundraisers

[Kabowd]

Let me just clarify (with regards to missionaries) I totally do not have a problem with them seeking support from those within the Body of Christ. We (the church) are supposed to take care of our own. Giving to ministries should be done regularly, willingly, and sacrificially. I agree with you on that. I have friends who plant churches or are missionaries and they raise their support. I don't think that's wrong at all. Here's what I'm saying: everything is about relationship. If you're going to seek support, seek it from those you have relationship with or who are believers. I do not agree at all with asking unbelievers or just random ppl to give to something God has called us to do. This removes the element of relationship entirely. It's the same reason I don't like the idea of the car wash to raise money. Even if you're handing out tracts, basically what you're saying is this: "God wants us to do ___(fill in the blank), but He's not providing. So we want you to provide." It communicates that God isn't taking care of His own, if you are out seeking others to give to it (in my opinion).

Like I stated above: when believers interact with the secular public it should not be in order to get something from them. That should not be our reputation. We should be known for blessing, giving, and wanting to get something to them; ultimately that being Christ.

Thanks for at least listening to my thoughts. I realize I'm a little radical sometimes.

[AnotherTraveler]

If you're going to seek support, seek it from those you have relationship with or who are believers

Maybe you didn't catch what I am saying.

I am not referring to the world, but to Christians, some I have known for decades, others I have only known a short time, but since the babies in Jamaica have no relationship with anyone on this board, or in their church, that's just too bad for them, isn't it?

I wonder if Lazarus would have done better if he had a relationship with the rich man?

Sorry, but I also am a little radical.

[Kabowd]

If you're going to seek support, seek it from those you have relationship with or who are believers

Maybe you didn't catch what I am saying.

I am not referring to the world, but to Christians, some I have known for decades, others I have only known a short time, but since the babies in Jamaica have no relationship with anyone on this board, or in their church, that's just too bad for them, isn't it?

I wonder if Lazarus would have done better if he had a relationship with the rich man?

Sorry, but I also am a little radical.

I think we're misunderstanding eachother. Gah..I guess I'm not explaining myself well. I'm NOT saying God will never use "lost" ppl to fund things. God positioned Nehemiah in relationship with the King, and by doing so the King ended up supporting Nehemiah and funding his entire mission. If God has called you to do something, HE WILL PROVIDE. Maybe I'm not understanding you, but you seem to be suggesting it's nearly impossible to serve God without soliciting help from unbelievers. Is that correct? If so, I still have to disagree. I believe that if God wants to you go anywhere, He will provide. Sometimes, yes, He may do it outside the Body of Christ...but when He does so, I still think He will do it within the context of relationship (i.e, through ppl you KNOW). If Lazarus was friends with the rich young ruler, perhaps God would've moved on the young man's heart to give to Lazarus. Guess we'll never know. All I know is that if He gives a vision, He will bring provision.

Am I still misunderstanding you?

[AnotherTraveler]

I agree with your concept of how things are supposed to be, but you need to understand what I have seen, realities on the ground. I really do agree that what you are saying should be so, but I am telling you that what should be is not always what is.

I am not speaking out for my needs, I am talking on behalf of those that can not speak for themselves, but have true needs.

(Mat 25:40 KJV) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

(Mat 25:41 KJV) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

(Mat 25:42 KJV) For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

(Mat 25:43 KJV) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

(Mat 25:44 KJV) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

(Mat 25:45 KJV) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

(Mat 25:46 KJV) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I have seen the poor brethren hungry and Christians did not respond, and they went into the next day hungry, not because God did not care, but because God could not get a response from the Head (Christ) to the body (us).

The streets of America are filled with homelessness, not just substance abusers either, but families where sickness or the loss of the job or a fire made them homeless. I have worked in the homeless ministry for years, and I have seen many that love the Lord without a place to lay their head because the Christians that should help wouldn't.

Thank you for how graciously you have answered me though, it is a pleasure to discuss with sweet spirited people these things.

[Kabowd]

Okay..I think I see what you're saying. I totally agree with you that there is alot of selfishness within the church and ppl have not been taught (or led) to give unselfishly. You're right, ppl are more concerned with their own wants and needs and have forsaken the call to care for the poor and needy. It's a travesty. It's horrible. I applaud those like yourself who speak up and stand up for those who can't defend themselves. I wish there were more who acted in response to that burden instead of just thinking "Isn't that sad?" and just turning and walking away. It's very true that the church has dropped the ball BIG TIME when it comes to providing for the needy, the orphans and the widows. Many are more concerned with building bigger facilities and furnishing them than feeding the hungry. We're in agreement on all those things. I guess where we disagree is on how to correct the issue. I'm just not seeing how fundraisers (outside of the Body and outside of relationship) are beneficial in the long run. I'm not sure what the solution would be..other than to re-train believers about their obligation to care for those who are in need. If they aren't being taught and led in the truth, they certainly aren't going to flesh it out.

[AnotherTraveler]

Well, I have to confess that I have been VERY resistant to fundraising, mostly because of my own foolish pride. There have been so many that have so made fundraising to be a corrupt thing (television comes to mind) that I didn't want to touch it, I mean I really hated it, I did not want to be associated with THEM.

However, the Lord has a great sense of humor, and seems to take a particular delight in calling us to do what we certainly would not do, left to our own devices.

I think Saul of Tarsus cared little for the Gentiles, and God so changed him that He became the Apostle to the Gentiles with the new name of Paul.

I don't care now about if I might possibly be tainted by the abusers in this area, I must cry out because He has said to do so, and I have seen with my own eyes things that are not supposed to be.

I saw a family of three generations with rickets (bowed legs and spinal issues) and the nutrition needed to prevent this would cost less than a dollar. Blindness that for a few pennies worth of vitamins would not have occurred (and yes, Jesus can and does heal), but I am most pitiful for those that could have helped that would not for various reasons that were used to justify a hard heart, I weep for them, as it is not a reward that they will get for the lack of response.

We have insulating doctrines and traditions today that would make a Pharisee blush, you should ask some of the pastors what is their most difficult challange, it is almost never the new converts (they do take some work), but nearly always the mature ones that are above being moved.

A small poor church has often a giving ratio that is amazingly high, but the large wealthy church often has a continually diminishing ratio. By the time people are in a position to make a real difference, they are unwilling and uninterested, not all, but certainly too many.

[irishcowboy]

our youth filled a 65 passanger school bus and two 15 passanger vans one pulling a 20 foot trailer with baggage, for a mission trip to Mexico...( old mexico ) for two weeks.....

the kids raise monies for and paid their own way on this trip..... i agree that they should not be given everything...... I have heard from some of the teens around that their parents can not handle money cause they are not getting everything handed to them on a silver platter.....

some have their cars bought for them ( i mean really nice new ( yes....NEW ) cars ) and also their taxes, tags, registration, and insurance and gas paid for them to go driving all over this earth...... then they complain that they are low on gas or that they are required to do this, that or other.....

personally, I would like to take these teens and send them back to the 1920's and 30's ....... let them see what it was like not to have a car.... having to rely on their own two feet if they lived in town.....

oh well,

if a person wants to get together with others for a picnic, then either have everyone that comes bring a dish, or, provide the food yourself and if you desire have a donation can, or, forget the donation can.... the church should not have to fund the dinner..... if there are some that can not afford to bring anything..... dont worry about it..... every one bring a dish if they can, and two if they want..... but lets not exclude some one cause they can not afford it, and lets not put the price tag on the church treasury, that is not what tithes and offerings are for...

the same with the mens golf team, or the church softball team or the horse back riding the youth are doing or the trip to see some concert for the seniors.....

if it is not used in the support of ministries, then it should come from private funds rather then church funds, but lets keep the house of pray, just that, a house of prayer......

oh??? you mean like the audio and video tapes of the services? should they be free? no, I buy them and distribute them to those that can not come to church my wife uses them with her home health clients.... the money paid in goes into aquireing more tapes, and also sets it up so that if some one can not afford a tape, they can have it for free....... this is used for reaching people...... not for raising money......

coffee and dounuts? well, these are bro ught in by individuals for others to share.... not from church funds......

folks.... when a guest speaker comes to our church, he is not expecting any money, he is there sharing the Word of God, is sharing what God is doing, He/she does not care if there is 5 people there or 500 people there, they come anyways, if they will only show up if there are a certain number of people or more, we dont want them........ for they probably have lost focus on what is important...... besides, if we have 50 people show up, and the church down the road has 500 people show up, chances are, there will be more in the love offering with the 50 then with the 500....

fund raisers..... shooot...... not for the general fund, and the general fund should not be used for "FUN" outings for any ...... lets pay as we go.....

mike

[irishcowboy]

Well, I have to confess that I have been VERY resistant to fundraising, mostly because of my own foolish pride. There have been so many that have so made fundraising to be a corrupt thing (television comes to mind) that I didn't want to touch it, I mean I really hated it, I did not want to be associated with THEM.

However, the Lord has a great sense of humor, and seems to take a particular delight in calling us to do what we certainly would not do, left to our own devices.

I think Saul of Tarsus cared little for the Gentiles, and God so changed him that He became the Apostle to the Gentiles with the new name of Paul.

I don't care now about if I might possibly be tainted by the abusers in this area, I must cry out because He has said to do so, and I have seen with my own eyes things that are not supposed to be.

I saw a family of three generations with rickets (bowed legs and spinal issues) and the nutrition needed to prevent this would cost less than a dollar. Blindness that for a few pennies worth of vitamins would not have occurred (and yes, Jesus can and does heal), but I am most pitiful for those that could have helped that would not for various reasons that were used to justify a hard heart, I weep for them, as it is not a reward that they will get for the lack of response.

We have insulating doctrines and traditions today that would make a Pharisee blush, you should ask some of the pastors what is their most difficult challange, it is almost never the new converts (they do take some work), but nearly always the mature ones that are above being moved.

A small poor church has often a giving ratio that is amazingly high, but the large wealthy church often has a continually diminishing ratio. By the time people are in a position to make a real difference, they are unwilling and uninterested, not all, but certainly too many.

you know, I have to say, my heart goes out to these children and their families....

seems to me, that those modern day "heros" the celebraties, could do more then just show up on the tube for a perduction...... sheesh.... if they are giving it is to elevate themselves to a higher station..... trying to show the world they have what it takes......

I have to agree, i have grown cold to these tv people and their money raising garbage....... how much do these kids really see??? if it takes 75 cents aday to keep a child alive, how much of my 75 dollars will be used to help kids out???? or will my 75 dollars and your 75 dollars be counted for the same kids and then 75 dollars is actually lining some one elses pocket????

how many sponsors are there for each of the children listed?

mike

[our3blessings]

personally, I would like to take these teens and send them back to the 1920's and 30's ....... let them see what it was like not to have a car.... having to rely on their own two feet if they lived in town.....

My teen daughter thinks we are so mean because we will not "buy" her a car when she gets her lisence. If she is to drive our vehicle, she must also earn that priviledge. It's so sad that most teens do have things just handed to them without any responsibilities.

[AnotherTraveler]

(Luke 18:22 KJV) Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

I wonder what we would do if Jesus said this to us? I wonder what the rich man's friend's thought when they talked about it later. "He told you to do what?"