Did god create evil?

[Guest okiejack]

According to my Bibles, GOD created everything. That everything includes evil. Nothing came into being without GOD's having created it.

How can GOD have created evil and not have evil in Him? Well He is GOD. So He can do whatever He wants.

GOD sent an evil spirit to Saul.

Intellectualize it all you want but evil was part of GOD's plan from before the beginning?

[Guest Trust in the Lord]

Hi okiejack:

Thanks for your reply but I just want to correct you on one thing you said: How can GOD have created evil and not have evil in Him?

My response to this is that God can create evil and not have evil in Him because if He has evil in Him then He is not God....God has used evil but He has NEVER done evil....hope that makes sense.

Thanks for your post keep them coming.

Any others out there that would like to make a comment?

[Guest Trust in the Lord]

Hi Dad Ernie:

you said: I agree with Godrulz. We can look at the account of creation and see that all that God created was "good". Then He rested. What God created was the "the tree of KNOWLEDGE of good and evil".

I say: If you will look at the second post you will see that

On Fire said If God did not create evil, then i guess, in Genesis, it would be called 'the tree of the knowledge of good'.

God created Evil before the Garden of Eden.....Knowledge came after the forbidden fruit was eaten....

you said: So if Adam had "just believed God and acted in faith toward Him", he would not have listened to his wife/Satan and partaken of the forbidden fruit.

I say:

[nebula]

My question is how could God create man with the ability to chose if He did not create a choice to be made?

My second question is if God did not create evil, where did it come from?  Is there then something on this Earth that God did not create?

[godrulz]

I'm surprised at this topic. Usually the idea that God created evil and suffering is a non-Christian objection to Christianity and a supposed contradiction between some biblical texts. I think there are some logical fallacies in some of the arguments, and isolated proof-texting without weighing the obvious teachings of Scripture.

It is not an explicit teaching of Scripture or reason based on reality that God created EVERYTHING. This is a radical departure from historical, biblical Christianity. Who has taught that God created evil? He does not have evil in Him nor does He create it making Him responsible for it (that is not consistent with Scripture or His eternal, uncreated nature).

Did God create the car I drive? No, machines and men at General Motors did. Did God create my watch or was it manufactured with man made creativity and materials? (Yes, originally God gave the human mind and the raw materials). Man is in a sense a small c creator of some things. God did not create your house.

Man has a creative free will and has invented new things (inventions, music, paintings, literature, movies= good and bad ones). Man's choices bring new reality into being. I had sex with my wife and now have children. That was not a direct creation of God (cf. animals reproducing... I know, man has a spirit).

When Hitler exterminated Jews (or Hussein), God did not create that evil! Hitler

[Guest shilou]

God rulz I feel like your twisting things. We are created beings, the tree was created, Lucifer was created so how could any of these created things, beings create evil? Romans 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy and He hardens whom He wants to harden.

God uses evil for His own purposes all throughout Scripture. Had He not hardened the Pharoh's heart there would have been no need to put lambs blood on the doors, there would have been no death, no deliverance, no passover, no passover lamb. Daniel in the Lions den, Joseph sold into slavery, Jesus crucified. Had evil not existed none of this and much more could not have taken place. Look at what it says in Romans God created Pharoh for that very purpose (to be an evil man) to show His glory which He did. What you are saying in this is evil just sprang up out of no where and so God figured He would just use it since it was there anyway. No God is God and He had a plan before all of this was put into motion. God could have squashed Satan like a bug before the whole thing got out of hand, but He didn't. So Godrulz I will ask you to explain why didn't He take Satan out right when the crisis started? Where did evil come from? And why does God allow it to exist even up to today? I remember years ago reading Exodus I had to come to the point where I had to except God on God's terms, not what I wanted Him to be. Simply because by reading that chapter and all the times God hardened the Pharoh's heart was not just allowing an evil man to continue in his ways, but by hardening his heart God was in fact creating a situation where many children would lose their lives. Think about that, read Exodus and then pray because the Scriptures will open up in a new way, they did for me.

In Yashua's love

Shilou

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Shilou,

No, Godrulz is not twisting anything. You might do well to look at the many words that are interpreted "evil" in their original languages and then ask yourself if God could be the "creator" of any of the inclusive meanings.

I think you mentioned how Adam and Eve saw that they were "naked". Look carefully at what the "spiritual" meaning is:

Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Those in Christ have put on "robes of righteousness" and thus are no longer naked. Adam recognized this and did the only thing he knew to "cover up" his sin.

You don't seem to grasp that evil is NOT a created thing. It is the soulish self that is wantonly desirous of commiting sin. Satan and his minions are the epitomy of "evil" because once they fell there was no longer any "good" thing found in them. But "evil" did not exist prior to the actions of Satan and subsequently the actions of Adam.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Trust in the Lord]

godrulz:

you said:

[Guest Trust in the Lord]

Dad Ernie:

you said:You don't seem to grasp that evil is NOT a created thing. It is the soulish self that is wantonly desirous of commiting sin. Satan and his minions are the epitomy of "evil" because once they fell there was no longer any "good" thing found in them. But "evil" did not exist prior to the actions of Satan and subsequently the actions of Adam.

I say:  Read Isaiah chapter 14 that explains the fall of Lucifer.....Lucifer did the first act of evil before God and he was punished for it.......

[godrulz]

Brother Ernie: It looks like we are almost alone on an island of clarity (that is refreshing). God is also bringing Nancy to my mind, and I pray for her wholeness and healing.

John W. Haley: "...none of the above texts (last post like Is./Amos) nor any others when PROPERLY explained, sanction the REVOLTING proposition that God is the author of sin (evil)."

I think my previous posts are coherent and faithful to accepted Scriptural interpretation (though I could word things better I am sure). God creating evil seems to be a hyper-Calvinistic teaching (which I happen to reject as contrary to the revelation of Scripture). It is also a common question in apologetic books on supposed Bible contradictions or errors (agnostic/atheistic accusations). Most authors take the view that God did not create moral evil, with the few proof texts having a better interpretation based on accepted exegetical rules for all of Scripture.

Let's revisit Is. 45:7 for example. This was thrown out as one of the few texts 'proving' God creates evil. At most, God APPEARS to be the author of evil based on an isolated phrase. Apart from a preconceived theology, the KJV is misleading. The Hebrew word for 'evil' (ra) covers the whole range of badness from distressing trials to calamities/disasters (NIV, etc.) that overtake good and evil people, to moral evil (your view?). The evil here, in context, is not the opposite of goodness, but of peace (parallels). This verse does not teach that God is the ultimate author of moral evil. I think it is a presumptious minority who hold this view in the face of sound biblical interpretation (saying it is the mere ideas of men/commentators is the logical fallacy argumentum ad hominem/argument to the man...attacking the credibility of God and His Word- loving believers/scholars through the centuries instead of dealing with the arguments/texts...watch superspirituality).

Is God cruel and vindictive to mete out punishment on the wicked? No. That is the essence of this verse (create evil). Evil can be interpreted as moral evil/wrongdoing OR evil in the sense of affliction, adversity, physical evil (natural) such as earthquakes and the * flood of Genesis and Sodom and Gomorrah (this is a far cry from God being accountable for the Hitler kind of evil). In governing the universe, God uses visitations in nature or calamities like war to punish the wicked and call them to repentance (or discipline Israel).

God created the possibility of moral evil by making free will creatures who determine their own destiny and many subordinate choices. Goodness implies this. The freedom to chose good implies the freedom to chose evil with all its negative consequences. Unless there is a possibility of refusing love, there is no possibility of affirming love (we are not robots). It is a cosmic leap to move from these principles (I think we are close on these) to stating that God creates and is responsible for sin/evil. This conclusion does not necessarily follow the texts (properly translated/interpreted) nor a sound theological argument consistent with other explicit verses.

Ps. 5:4 "You are NOT a God who takes pleasure in (moral) evil." (NIV)