The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[He giveth more grace]

When Paul was concerned that there was a "possibility" that he could be castaway then i believe him.

Yes Paul was afraid of being a castaway, a castaway from knowing Christ more intimately, a castaway from receiving crowns and reward, a castaway from many things that comes from right standing with the Lord. The people paul preach to was going to reap something that Paul wanted to partake of as well. A cast away from Things! not a castaway from Christ.

[Guest shiloh357]

This interpretation is a perfect example of how someone who believes in OSAS will come up with a way of making a scripture that clearly opposes it, make it fit into their doctrinal position. We do this on both sides. There are scriptures that imply OSAS, and there are scriptures that show OSAS is a lie.

No, it is an example of solid exegesis. The issue about being a castaway has nothing to do with salvation in terms of trying to maintain salvation. That is not even the topic of the chapter. Paul is talking about his preaching ministry, not his salvation. He is not running a race or disciplining his body to stay saved. He views his ministry as a race for a reward Salvation is not a reward for service. It is a gift. Monarchy is holding true to the context and substance of 1 Cor. 9.

How do we reconcile the scriptures that make it clear certain behaviors will keep us from inheriting the Kingdom of God with those that seem to imply there is eternal security of the true believer?

We allow context to tell us the subject matter that is actually is being discussed. What I have seen with those who don't believe in Eternal Security is the practice of citing single verses while ignoring the context. Grabbing verses that mention "salvation" but failing to take into account that not every reference to salvation is talking about salvation from sin. Salvation is used at least 5 different ways but the anti-security crowd fails to recognize that when they string verses together. Often verses that are used to refer to salvation are not even talking about salvation at all, but are assigned that value.

The anti-Security crowd really has some very shoddy exegetical practices.

[Guest shiloh357]

How was Paul going to be a castaway from his preaching ministry?

The same way other preachers end up losing their ministry because of immoral or inethical behavior. That is what Paul is talking about. He is talking about being rejeted as a minister if his behavior reproaches the preaching of the Gospel. That is what Chapter 9 is all about.

It is not like he belonged to a denomination that would take away his credentials. That is a totally absurd interpretation.

He would not need anyone to take away his credentials. Were Paul to be found to be dishonest, no one would have recognized him as an apsotle, and he would have been rejected by the Christians in his day as a credible genuine aposlte.

You believe that salvatoin has to won earned or rewarded. I believe the TRUE Gospel which says that salvation is a gift.

Besides that, I can prove OSAS is wrong with one passage. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This makes no exceptions. In the following verse, it is made plain that Christians don't do these things. If you are saved, and then become a drunkard, you have a problem.

The context (and yes I know that word really bugs you) is not about Christians losing salvation. The issue was about not taking other Christians to court, but to settle their differences in house. Paul's point is that we know that those people will not inherit the kingdom of God. The city of Corinth was the most sinful city of its days and even the magistrates were caught up in it. Paul was making the point is that those sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God and so they had no business judging believers who willone day be judging angels.

The OSAS doctrine says you are still saved, but scripture says you won't inherit the kingdom of God. In order to reconcile this, the OSAS crowd has to come up with some crazy excuse to claim that won't inherit doesn't really mean what it says.

No, those of us who understand how to read a passage in context and understand what the subject matter is can easily see why preaching against assurance is just a fool's errand.

[Guest shiloh357]

When Paul was concerned that there was a "possibility" that he could be castaway then i believe him.

Yes Paul was afraid of being a castaway, a castaway from knowing Christ more intimately, a castaway from receiving crowns and reward, a castaway from many things that comes from right standing with the Lord. The people paul preach to was going to reap something that Paul wanted to partake of as well. A cast away from Things! not a castaway from Christ.

We do not need to make interpretations about the word CASTAWAY as it has its own unadulterated meaning in the English language and speaks for itself.

The problem is that even the word in English is not referring to being a castaway from salvation, as the context is not about salvation. Paul is talking about being rejected for service, not salvation.

[Guest]

The Measure Of A Man

Where Is Your Hope

A Self-Justified Good Guy

Or Sinner Justified By Faith In Jesus

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. Galatians 5:4-9

~

.... I can prove OSAS is wrong with one passage. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This makes no exceptions. In the following verse, it is made plain that Christians don't do these things. If you are saved, and then become a drunkard, you have a problem. The OSAS doctrine says you are still saved, but scripture says you won't inherit the kingdom of God. In order to reconcile this, the OSAS crowd has to come up with some crazy excuse to claim that won't inherit doesn't really mean what it says....

Beloved By Whose Righteousness Are Ye Saved, Yours?

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:20-21

For It Is Known Beyond Any Doubt

I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. Hosea 14:4

Jesus Christ Absolutely

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:24-28

Saves

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,

and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Love, Your Brother Joe

[He giveth more grace]

Butero, on 24 January 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

.... I can prove OSAS is wrong with one passage. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I have to watch my words here. The Kingdom of God is NOT HEAVEN, brother, the Kingdom of God is in the heart of beleivers. Those deviants and sinners in the verses you provided have likely never been blood washed by the redeemer and they won't enjoy the Kingdom which is in us which is displayed in - righteousness - peace - and joy in the Holy Spirit. IMHO, you should first become a pupil before you become a teacher.

[He giveth more grace]

[shiloh said: No, it is an example of solid exegesis. The issue about being a castaway has nothing to do with salvation in terms of trying to maintain salvation. That is not even the topic of the chapter. Paul is talking about his preaching ministry, not his salvation. He is not running a race or disciplining his body to stay saved. He views his ministry as a race for a reward Salvation is not a reward for service. It is a gift. Monarchy is holding true to the context and substance of 1 Cor. 9.

Shiloh right, being a castaway means, when the churches that Paul preached to reined as kings, enjoyed the benefits of pleasing and serving God, attained crowns and glory the he was watchful not to fall short of reaping from the Gospel; I not making myself clear.

Same with this verse:

Hebrews 2:3

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation..,

It doesn't mean losing our salvation, but through sin or unbeilf and doubt we don't receive the full benefit from the redemntion that is in Jesus Christ. It mean that real born-again saints falling short of the deleiverance, power, grace, and everything else that God wrought for us.

[He giveth more grace]

"The kingdom of God is within you." Lk 17:21

Excellent !

[He giveth more grace]

When Paul was concerned that there was a "possibility" that he could be castaway then i believe him.

Yes Paul was afraid of being a castaway, a castaway from knowing Christ more intimately, a castaway from receiving crowns and reward, a castaway from many things that comes from right standing with the Lord. The people paul preach to was going to reap something that Paul wanted to partake of as well. A cast away from Things! not a castaway from Christ.

We do not need to make interpretations about the word CASTAWAY as it has its own unadulterated meaning in the English language and speaks for itself.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:35a & 38-39

[Pilgrim_of_the_Dispersion]

Oh, yes, no doubt that the doctrine known as "Once Saved, Always Saved" is errant.

Let's first establish some very basic facts from the Bible.

1) You must believe in God to be saved.

• John 3:16
  
• Romans 10:9-10
  
  
  2) You cannot earn salvation by works.
  
  • Ephesians 2:8-9
    
  • 2 Timothy 1:9
    
    
    3) God has expectations of His followers, beyond simply belief.
    
    • Matthew 7:21-23
      
    • Mark 16:15-16
      
    • James 2:14-26
      
    • 1 Peter 1:13-16; 2:1-3
      
    • Hebrews 5:9
      
      
      4) If God's believers do not meet His expectations, they sin, and this sin separates them from God and salvation
      
      • 2 Peter 2:20-22
        
      • 1 Corinthians 9:27
        
      • Galatians 5:1-3
        
      • Hebrews 6:4-8
        
      • Hebrews 10:26-31
        

      5) Certain sins are named that, no matter whether or not you have once been right with God, will prevent you from entering heaven.

      [*]1 Corinthians 6:9

      [*]Galatians 5:19

      6) God wants everyone to repent, and is willing to forgive them no matter what their sin may have been.

      [*]1 John 1:9

      [*]2 Peter 3:9

      DISCLAIMER: Saying that God requires obedience and works as a condition to the offering of salvation is not to say that obedience and works are what earned the salvation. Not at all. Please realize that these two ideas are in complete harmony: That God's grace alone provides us salvation, but that God only bestows this grace upon those who obey His commands.

      I'll present an analogy to perhaps make this point more clear.

      Pretend you are a prisoner, found guilty of a million horrible crimes, and you are serving a life sentence, with a bail of $72,000,000,000, or some enormous amount that you have no hope of paying off. Now imagine that a man comes into your cell one day and tells you that if you do a few certain acts--teach a few fellow inmates how to read, do some volunteer work around the prison, apologize for your crimes, write a book about why your actions were wrong and why your punishment was justified--that he will pay the price of your bail and you will be free from prison. So, obviously, being presented with this ridiculously simple and merciful offer, you do what the man tells you to do and, sure enough, when you do your part, he provides the payment of bail and you are free from prison.

      Now here's the question: did the acts that you did--teaching someone to read, volunteering for work, apologizing of crimes, and writing the book--somehow produce or earn payment of the bail? Of course not. And yet, if you had not done exactly as he had asked, would he have paid the bail? No.

      Likewise, we were imprisoned in sin because of the crimes that we had committed against God. There was no way for us to pay our own debt, to absolve yourself, and yet God provided a way for us to be saved--believe in Jesus as the Son of God (Romans 10:9-10), be baptized into His death (Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Peter 3:21), purify yourself (1 John 3:1-5), and do all other things that He has commanded (John 14:15). These actions do not somehow absolve us of that unpayable debt, but if we do not do these things, God will not save us, because we have not met the conditions of this salvation.

      It's very simple, but it seems that people get very confused when they discuss such a concept, that God provides salvation, but only for those who meet the conditions that He supplies. That's how God wants it, according to His holy word.

      But it's very clear in the verses I provided earlier that, once having attained salvation, you can cast it away from yourself when you turn form the right way of living. I'm not really sure why people don't understand that. I assume it has something to do with the unwillingness to do what the Lord has commanded. We want salvation on our OWN terms, we don't want to keep our side of the bargain. Salvation should be an easy thing, as we see it. But that's not what God wishes for us. So, the doctrine called "Once Saved, Always Saved" is not scripturally sound or accurate.