Understanding Job?

[sachi]

He was so sure about his standing before the Lord, but thankfully, ..... repentence, was still the right response for Job, and he still "knew" it. ... The point of Job, I believe, is that no matter how good you believe your standing is before the Lord, you are NEVER beyond His Authority, and beyond His chastening. To heed the Lord's discipline/affliction is needful for man, to bring him to understanding, lest the Lord allow you to tangle with the Leviathian/the Master of Pride/Satan.............and that you will never forget! And if you listen to what the Lord says in 41, you would realize only HE is the one able to master over that monster, so do not ever think that you are mighty enough to do the same. Pride is hefty, but the Lord is greater!!! .....

We must always remember WHO is our Creator and Master, and should we begin to forget, we might be dealing with the Leviathan, who is too big for us.

These are profound thoughts, Suzanne -

Job repented ; he cried out "I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

What a provocative image : Job, after all he had been through, NOW having come face to face with God is repulsed at his own self righteousness and repents in dust and ashes.

In light of the picture of Job in Chapter 42, oh, my I have a looooooooong way to go, yet - only by the mercy of God -

[sachi]

Perhaps Job never realized that his experience brought glory to God in the face of Satan's challenge (Job 1:8-12). But Job was satisfied to know that God's wisdom was flawless. At times you may not understand why a loving Father would allow you to suffer as you are. You may question the wisdom of God's direction for your life. Learn from Job. Review the awesome power and wisdom of almighty God (Job 38-41). Have confidence that this same God is directing your path.

This also was a comforting thought as well as a challenge-

I had some time this evening to actually get into some reference book @ Job!!!!

I found something by Henriette Mears that complements the Study you shared above.

She writes (and I am jumping around through paragraphs , understand).....

that Satan has a 'shallow' view of God's children in that according to his view "the children of God love and serve Him because it pays in riches and honor. Satan said the Job's godliness was selfishness, that he served God for profit, that when prosperity ended, he would be no more godly."

When I read that I thought to myself - yeah he does have a shallow view of us - that's not what our faith is about -

Then she reiterates something you shared, Suzanne in your above posts. reading it again hit something home for me because both you and Mears articulate it so well:

" When Job was prosperpous and upright and benevolent, he was in danger of becomin g self confident, and could easily forget he only held his power and place in this world as a steward of God...."

(This I think is where my struggle lay . . .)

And she explains that although suffering can be a result of sin .. the book of Job also provides another reason for suffering.

"In this case" writes Mear, "Job was being honored by God. It was the truth that God could trust Job to remain faithful to God in spite of everything. How wonderful it would be if you and I learned to thank God for all that happens to us."

Uh huh? Thats a reframe!!! Honored by God???? Yes, she says honored by God through suffering because He is trusting us to be faithful through the trials. . . .

( that tsruck and arrow in my heart - humbling)

This has been an excellent study - it has given me a LOT to think about. It will need to go over some this stuff again and again -

I would never have thought of going into Job at this particular time of my life- with so much happening -

I believe I was led to this by the Holy Spirit to this study

I learned stuff that is directly applicable to my situations

and there was a kind of healing - freeing that has been happening too

Thank you so much Suzanne - your teaching is so deep and true

blessings ~sachi

[tsth]

I found this to be relevant to the study of Job.............and us! Although it could also be a whole study on it's own, I would compel us to think about this passage:

Hebrews 5:8

Although He was a son, he learned obedience from what He suffered..........(cross ref. Hebrews 12:11)

Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Are we learning "obedience" from our sufferings?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

I have to admit, I was a little taken aback by that passage about Christ. Were you?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Robert Sutherland]

A number of the participants on this study of the Book of Job might be interested in an earlier thread "Putting God on Trial: The Biblical Book of Job" to be found in the section "Apologetics" about 4 pages back.

I wrote a book on Job "Putting God on Trial: The Biblical Book of Job" which is now online in its entirety at http://www.bookofjob.org

[sachi]

tsth,quote:

Hebrews 5:8

Although He was a son, he learned obedience from what He suffered..........(cross ref. Hebrews 12:11)

Are we learning "obedience" from our sufferings?

That is the operative question.

Obedience to God, the Holy Spirit is the expression of our faith -

tsth, quote:

I have to admit, I was a little taken aback by that passage about Christ. Were you?

That is so provocative and profound.

It gives me a lot to meditate on. . .

How do you understand that, Suzanne ?

[Guest Robert Sutherland]

Sachi:

It is one thing to "learn" obedience as a child through suffering. It is another thing to "express" or "show" obedience as an adult through suffering.

1. Did Jesus "learn" or "show" obedience through his trials in Gethsemane and on the cross?

2. Did Job "learn" or "show" obedience through his trials with Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu and God?

[sachi]

Robert S, quote:

It is one thing to "learn" obedience as a child through suffering. It is another thing to "express" or "show" obedience as an adult through suffering.

1. Did Jesus "learn" or "show" obedience through his trials in Gethsemane and on the cross?

2. Did Job "learn" or "show" obedience through his trials with Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, Elihu and God?

Job unquestionably his humility at the end of his trials for he said he 'despised' himself and repented in dust and ashes.

He showed obedience in his day: the Bible states he was righteous

"there was none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man" and one can assumethat he showed that obedience to the end of his days

Jesus prayed in the Garden "Father let this cup pass by me ...yet, not my will but Thine be done."

That to me is a statement of obedience-

of a heart attitude that exceeds obedience- and reflects total abandonment to God's will.

[Guest Robert Sutherland]

Sachi:

What makes you think Job despised "himself"? What was it about himself that he despised?

The Hebrew text does not have the word "himself". Some translations add the word himself; other, don't. What makes you think it should be added?

[johnnyc]

Holiness. Do we believe God requires holiness of us today?

God looks at our heart. He knows us on the inside, our true self.

Job seemed to be okay as long as things were going good for him. Then all unholiness broke out when the enemy was allowed to have his way, as God permitted.

Remember in the New Testament the many times Paul was imprisioned and beaten, etc, shipwrecked; his response was praise and thanksgiving. Obviously he had a holy heart. Shouldn't we have a holy heart too?

Edited December 22, 2004 by johnnyc