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"Gematria and the number of the Beast 666"


Bold Believer

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What I believe will prove itself in the end. Your belief system won't stand, because it's built on bad exegesis and false assumptions. It's an unclear trumpet.

You can't say this to other believers, B.B., because the only 'belief system' that matters is God's. Salvation doesn't hinge on one's interpretation of Revelation but, rather, on belief in the Messiah. I'm pretty sure that everyone here is a follower of Jesus......arguing pre-, mid- or post-trib is like arguing about whether a rose is white, eggshell or ecru. It's not relevant and everyone's view should be respected. If the only purpose is to be 'right'......all of us who believe in Him are already there. :)

The purpose isn't to be right, the purpose is to show correct teaching from incorrect. I have no doubt that my belief system has errors I haven't found. EVERY belief system has errors. You are correct that the only thing that matters in the end is what God has decreed. I don't think that anyoen who believes pre-millennial teaching is unsaved, but they are certainly missing what the Scriptures have to say in their proper context. And yes, EVERYONE'S view should be respected. I haven't received that respect. I am just assumed to be automatically wrong because my understanding doesn't line up with what's popular, and yes, I resent that. I'd like to see believers go to Preterist Archive (it covers both partial and full preterism) and actually read what some of the early Believers and others believed. They might be surprised.

Yes, your beliefs should be respected as well, B.B. Unfortunately, we are all just fallible humans. What bothers me is the barbed comments aimed at each other instead of at the enemy (and I have been very guilty of this myself in the past.) Satan is after us, my friend, and he loves to see splits in the ranks of believers. I'm just trying to keep the focus where it belongs. :)

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I have explained the mark more than once. You and those like you ignore it. You're so steeped in lies, you don't want to listen to the truth. I've no intention of repeating myself for the sake of seeing myself type.

Witnessable? Josephus IS the most reliable witness we have OUTSIDE of what is in the Scripture. Everything must be confirmed by two or three witnesses (or more).

I don't know Mr. DeMarr. I have skimmed one of his books. I don't read him all the time. He's not the only non premillennialist I've read. Frankly I think both Chilton and Gentry give better explanations than he. If you want to believe pre-millennialism, have at it. But you're believing something Scripture doesn't completely support.

Pre-trib teaching only has been around a little while. The concepts of partial preterism and historical post-millennialism have been around far longer. Pre-mill teaching has been around since the early Church, but it was always post-trib.

What I believe will prove itself in the end. Your belief system won't stand, because it's built on bad exegesis and false assumptions. It's an unclear trumpet.

M.O.T.S. No, you have never given a relevant explanation for the mark, any more than you have demonstrated how Satan is bound or the world is getting better, and you have been ask to explain all these points repeatedly. You do not give an explanation because you have none. I repeat any point as many times as is necessary and have no problems doing so. Anyone with the truth has no problems doing so. They don't carp and whine because they have to say something more than once. Your hostile attitude displays, in and of itself that your doctrine has some deficiencies.

1. The mark is the antithesis of Deuteronomy 6's Mark of God. You will notice that the Deuteronomy passage tells Believers:

Deu 6:8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead."

Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,"

These are exact OPPOSITES of one another (as are many things in Revelation when compared to the OT). The HE in this part of the passage is not Rome/Caesar. The HE is the second beast, the land-beast. That's the Jewish leadership. They are the ones who:

1. Led the people to call for the crucifixion of Jesus (John 19:15)

2. Tried to have Jesus killed (John again)

3. Led the Romans TO Jesus so he could be crucified (in the Gospels)

4. Castigated Jesus in Scripture as being from Satan

5. Propagated the lie that the Disciples carried off his body, thus denying the resurrection (Mt 28:11-15)

6. Worked with Rome to persecute the Church (Acts 4:24-28; 12:1-3; 13:8; 14:5; 17:5-8; 18:12-13; 21:11; 24:1-9; 25:2-3, 9, 24)

What the apostate leadership did by these things is they caused the people to worship Satan through obedience to Rome and Caesar. The significance of the matter would have been very obvious to Believers. Who had the authority to call fire down from heaven in the presence of men? The priests, in the sacrifice. Who spoke like a dragon? The priests and leaders, echoing "Crucify him!". Who exercised all the authority of the first beast (Rome/Nero) by his authority? The Jewish leadership, which is testified to by Paul; he had once been a part of it, he should know.

Another OT passage about the things of God being bound to the forehead and hand:

Exd 13:16 "So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries on your forehead, for with a powerful hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt." This was a reminder of God's killing of the firstborn when Israel came out of Egypt. Again not literally, but metaphorically, calling the people to rememberance of what God did.

So then, how is it that these instances do not have to be literal, but the Rev 13 passage does? Food for thought.

How did having the mark of the beast benefit those who had it: They had the approval of Rome. Christianity, in refusing, did not; they were religio illiciti or illegal religion. The Jews offered sacrifices twice a day to Caesar and when they stopped doing so, it brought about the Jewish War in AD 66.

There was also a literal Mark of the Beast. Huh? What? Yes, it was called a libellus, and was given to someone who made the proper sacrifice to the genus (divinity) of the emperor. Simply burn a pinch of incense to the emperor and receive a papyrus document (libellus) which allowed you to conduct business in Roman marketplaces.

The Jews on occasion also organized economic boycotts against Christians and pointed them out as those who refused to worship Caesar as Lord.

2. How Satan IS bound? Try WAS bound. He's no longer bound. He's quite loose. But since you ask, Satan was bound in a specific sense: That he might no longer deceive the nations. This allowed the Gospel to go out and allows people who hear it and are called to life in Christ to respond in belief. The nations were influenced by the Gospel of Christ. The influences of paganism slowly died off or went underground over time.

3. I never stated that the world would get better. That is a belief of historic post-millennialism, not partial preterism. Again, you stand confused. Historical post-millennialism believes that the world will be influenced for good by Christ over a long and protracted period of time and overcome the power of Satan. I DO believe, and history bears this out, that the world benefitted from Christianity's pre-eminence. Many great things came about thanks to Christianity. Education, music, architecture, law and moral influence to name a few. In that sense, the world DID get better.

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I found this while looking for information on the Number of the Beast. I don't know Michal Hunt nor am I affiliated with Agape Bible Study in any shape or form, however in this case, the lady has hit the eschatological nail on the head very squarely. I have placed the article in quotes.

"Revelation 13:18 "There is need for shrewdness here: anyone clever may interpret the number of the beast: it is the number of a human being, the number 666."

For a Jew this number was a fearful image. The Old Testament image that would immediately connect with Jews or Messianic Jews would be the fall of King Solomon, Israel's greatest ruler, as he led his people into apostasy. We'll discuss those passages at the end of this section.

As you will remember we discussed the concept of "Rome is Caesar and Caesar is Rome"; that a ruler and his empire is one and the same. John clearly shows us this connection in the riddle of the number of the Beast. In the ancient world there was no separate set of symbols representing number value. Letters of the alphabet carried numerical value. The 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet all had number value just as the 24 letters of the Greek alphabet each had a number equivalent. But as for the Romans, only six letters carried number value: 1for the letter I, 5 for the letter V, 10 for the letter X, 50 for the letter L, 100 for the letter C, and 500 for the letter D. Contrary to popular belief there was no single letter value for 1000. That number was represented by back to back Ds and so resembled the letter M.

John warns us that to solve this puzzle takes shrewdness and cleverness! The Roman Emperor we know as Nero Caesar had two common spelling for his name in the first century. One form was Nero Kesar but the Hebrew spelling is Neron Kesar. This is important because some ancient MSS (handwritten manuscripts) instead of using the number 666 have the number 616. If you add up the letter values in Hebrew (that's why it takes shrewdness-most people did not know Hebrew) Neron Caesar (Neron Kaisar) adds up to 666. Neron Kaisar = Nrwn Q(K)sr in Hebrew which used no vowels, was the linguistically correct Hebrew form and is found in the Jewish Talmud, in the writings of the community at Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and other rabbinical writings. No Jew would ever have thought of Nero except as rsq nwrn (Hebrew read left to right). But Nero Caesar (rsq nwr), the other spelling (alternate spellings were very common), adds up to 616, which is exactly the variant reading in a few New Testament Revelation manuscripts for the number of the Beast.

Examples of Gematria for Neron Caesar and Nero Caesar

Hebrew

Hebrew

Greek

Nrwn Qsr - Neron Caesar

Nrw Qsr - Nero Caesar

Iesous - Jesus

Q=100

Q=100

I=10

S=60

S=60

E=8

R=200

R=200

S=200

N=50

N=50

O=70

R=200

R=200

U=400

W=6

W=6

S=200

N=50

666

616

888

This is extremely strong evidence for the Beast representing the depraved Roman emperor Nero. It also cannot be overlooked that all the earliest Catholic Christian writers on the Apocalypse from St. Irenaeus Bishop of Lyon in the 2nd century down to St. Victorinus Bishop of Pettau martyred in AD 302 and Commodian in the 4th century, and Adreaeus in the 5th and St. Beatus in the 8th centuries connect Nero and/or Rome with the number of the Beast.

Question: Why is 6 the number of man and the number of the beast?

Answer: 6 is the number of man and the beasts because they were both created on the 6th day. There's an important connection to Christ and man here. Can you guess what it is? You'll find the answer in bold type as the lesson continues.

Question: But if Nero is the Beast isn't Rome also the Beast. After all, isn't this an illustration of the saying which was commonly expressed during the world domination of the Roman Empire "Caesar is Rome and Rome is Caesar"? If you add up the value of the numbers used by Rome for counting, what is the value of those numbers?

The Gematria of Roman numerals

I

1

V

5

X

10

L

50

C

100

D

500

666

666 is a trinity of 6s never to be a 7. 6 is the number of man, especially as man in rebellion against God. Goliath was 6 cubits and a span (see 1 Samuel 17:4). King Nebuchadnezzar erected a statue to himself to be worshipped. It was 60 cubits high and 6 cubits across (Daniel 3:1)

The answer of course i 666: The number of the Beast. Then too, Caesar claimed to be God. The word god in Greek is theos. Kaisar Theos is 616, the alternate number in some manuscripts:

K

20

A

1

I

10

S

200

A

1

R

100

T

9

E

5

O

70

S

200

Total

616

If you are interested in numbers, you may like to know that the square of 6 (6x6) is 36, and the triangular of 36 is 666. Triangulation is a method of computation that was popular in the ancient world and was very familiar to people in the first century. It is too complicated to explain here but the different computations of the triangulation of 666 will yield both the numbers 3 1/2 and 1260 which are numbers you recognize from John's prophecy of the period of time the Beast is powerful and able to inflict suffering on the Saints.

Another interesting aspect of this very mysterious number is that John wrote out the symbols. He didn't spell out the number. Therefore, the first number was the same first initial double letter (in Greek) as the name of Christ: x = CH. The last letter which looks like an s in Greek, was the first double-letter (st) of the word Cross = stauros. Between the two stood the symbol of the Serpent. The whole formed a triple repetition of 6, the number of man, and the number day that Jesus was crucified (Friday is the 6th day of the week with Saturday, the Sabbath, the 7th). Jesus died for man on the day man was created - Jesus died on the 6th day, Friday. Jesus was resurrected on the 8th day; which became the first day of the new creation. The gematria for Jesus (Iesous) in Greek, the language of the New Testament is 888. Eight 8) is the number of salvation and redemption. Jesus is a trinity of 8s.

Question: Can you find anywhere else in Scripture where the number 666 is mentioned? Hint: see 1 Kings 10:14 and 2 Chronicles 9:13.

Answer: It is found only in these two places. Both passages record that King Solomon received 666 talents of gold in one year. Solomon is both a Biblical type for Christ and for the Beast. The number 666 marks both the height of his reign and the beginning of his fall away from God and into apostasy. Solomon falls from his position of favor with God as he breaks the three aws of godly kingship as recorded in Deuteronomy 17:16-17: the law against multiplying gold (1 Kings 10:14-25); the law against multiplying horses (1 Kings 10: 26-29); and the law against multiplying wives (1 Kings 11:1-8). As I already mentioned, for a Jew the number 666 was a fearful sign of apostasy and the mark of both a king and his kingdom that had failed to image God and so had fallen to the image of Satan.

John's message is that Satan, the great red Dragon, at his most powerful is just a 6, or a series of 6s. He will never be a seven = perfection. His plans for the world and the downfall of man will never be fulfilled. The Church will overcome and be victorious through Jesus, the 888, who conquered on the 8th Day! Praise and glory to the King!"

I checked the website and found that the author of this article is in fact unabashedly Catholic. That said, again, on this particular subject, she has done the Church in total a service. Her historical points are valid and she bears listening to.

Dear friend,

Catholic = Amillennial. You are right on the money. This has been the standard scholarly viewpoint for a long time now. The only thing I can add is some of the scribes did not use the final "N" in NeroN which made it come out 616 because N = 50. This is really just another proof that the early copyists or scribes knew that Nero was intended in the Text of the Apocalypse.

Larry

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Guest shiloh357
1. The mark is the antithesis of Deuteronomy 6's Mark of God. You will notice that the Deuteronomy passage tells Believers:

Deu 6:8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead."

Rev 13:16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,"

These are exact OPPOSITES of one another (as are many things in Revelation when compared to the OT).

Another classic example of sloppy hermeneuetics. There is absolutely no theological or scriptural basis for those asssertions. It is just something out of your imagination.

The HE in this part of the passage is not Rome/Caesar. The HE is the second beast, the land-beast. That's the Jewish leadership. They are the ones who:

1. Led the people to call for the crucifixion of Jesus (John 19:15)

2. Tried to have Jesus killed (John again)

3. Led the Romans TO Jesus so he could be crucified (in the Gospels)

4. Castigated Jesus in Scripture as being from Satan

5. Propagated the lie that the Disciples carried off his body, thus denying the resurrection (Mt 28:11-15)

6. Worked with Rome to persecute the Church (Acts 4:24-28; 12:1-3; 13:8; 14:5; 17:5-8; 18:12-13; 21:11; 24:1-9; 25:2-3, 9, 24)

What the apostate leadership did by these things is they caused the people to worship Satan through obedience to Rome and Caesar.

Again, you are making a huge leap and you have no scriptural basis for it. Where do you find the Scriptural basis for claiming that the Jewish leadership is the second beast? Work that out for us. Seems that you are really just reading into text to get this. No competent exegesis would ever lead to such nonsense.

The significance of the matter would have been very obvious to Believers. Who had the authority to call fire down from heaven in the presence of men? The priests, in the sacrifice. Who spoke like a dragon? The priests and leaders, echoing "Crucify him!". Who exercised all the authority of the first beast (Rome/Nero) by his authority? The Jewish leadership, which is testified to by Paul; he had once been a part of it, he should know.

Where does the Bible say that the priests could call down fire?? How is calling for Jesus' crucifixion "speaking like a dragon?" That is just more overstatements and exaggerations, not unlike others you have made. You are trying force something on to the text that is not there.

Another OT passage about the things of God being bound to the forehead and hand:

Exd 13:16 "So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries on your forehead, for with a powerful hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt." This was a reminder of God's killing of the firstborn when Israel came out of Egypt. Again not literally, but metaphorically, calling the people to rememberance of what God did.

So then, how is it that these instances do not have to be literal, but the Rev 13 passage does?

Real simple. Those are common middleeastern metaphors for how they were to place God's commandments as the first priority in their lives. In Rev. 13 it is speaks in more concrete terms and says that you cannot buy or sell without the mark. That demonstrates that it is an actual physical mark. Furthermore it forced. God did not force anyone to take any kind of mark.

How did having the mark of the beast benefit those who had it: They had the approval of Rome. Christianity, in refusing, did not; they were religio illiciti or illegal religion. The Jews offered sacrifices twice a day to Caesar and when they stopped doing so, it brought about the Jewish War in AD 66.

There was also a literal Mark of the Beast. Huh? What? Yes, it was called a libellus, and was given to someone who made the proper sacrifice to the genus (divinity) of the emperor. Simply burn a pinch of incense to the emperor and receive a papyrus document (libellus) which allowed you to conduct business in Roman marketplaces.

Wrong. The libellus was not a mark. The mark was to be on either the hand or forehead. The libellus does not meet that criteria. There is a lot of difference bewtween a certificate and a mark on the hand or forehead.

2. How Satan IS bound? Try WAS bound. He's no longer bound. He's quite loose. But since you ask, Satan was bound in a specific sense: That he might no longer deceive the nations. This allowed the Gospel to go out and allows people who hear it and are called to life in Christ to respond in belief. The nations were influenced by the Gospel of Christ. The influences of paganism slowly died off or went underground over time.

This is a good example of history revisionism. There was never a time when the Gospel went forth without resistence and intense persecution. The apostles died for their message and so did many of their disciples. For centuries Christianity was persecuted. There has NEVER been a time that Christians have not suffered persecution all over the world. To claim Satan was ever bound is simply not something that holds up. As always you are REACHING for something that is just not really true and you trying to revise history in the process.

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