Can Women Lead The Flock?

[AnotherSinner]

just throwing out a question here, because i skipped from page four to this last page....

to the person who said that there was a reason women are not supposed to preach/teach, that reason being that women were the first to be deceived...

are you seriously trying to imply that a man's preaching is infallible

Is that what the Word of God states in 1Ti 2:12-15?

no. God's word does not in any way state that man is incapable of screwing it up. God's word is inerrant. we, as christians, are to be as the bereans were and search the scriptures to make sure that what any man preaches is actually correct. so while 1 t 2:14 does reference woman first being deceived, that should NEVER be misconstrued to say that men are incapable of being deceived.

That was not said. Where did you get that from? Sorry but it is hard not to take offense.....words are continuously being put in mouths that were never said. NOWHERE was it said that men were incapable of being decieved. Scripture was merely being quoted so as to explain why women were not placed in that role..... not going to argue anymore... do not want to, and just can see that there is not going to be full agreement here which is understandable.

This conversation is all yours and for those who remain...

May God Bless You

Dani

[Guest Butero]

There are only two offices that women aren't Biblically qualified to do, and that is Bishop and Deacon. Those two offices require that the office holder be the "husband of one wife." You must be a married man to be a Bishop or Deacon. The reason why everyone thinks a woman can't be a Pastor is because we have made the Pastor into a Bishop, and given them that job description. If you separate the two offices, a woman is qualified to be a Pastor. Most churches won't do that, because the Pastor gets a salary, and the idea that their sole responsibility is the Word of God and prayer isn't enough. For that reason, women aren't qualified to serve as the Pastor at most churches today, but are qualified to be an associate Pastor, serving under a Pastor acting as the Bishop. This has absolutlely nothing to do with women being emotional or lacking understanding.

Pastors teach from the pulpit.

Women are not allowed to teach men.

1 Timothy 2:9-15

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed; then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

This is the passage you are refering to. Yes, it does forbid women to teach or usurp a man's authority. There are two ways to look at this. It could mean in the home, since the husband is the head of the wife. Adam chose to obey Eve, his wife, over the voice of God. When God set up the order of authority in the home, he made the husband the head of the wife, yet he is to obey God. The wife is not to try to usurp her husband's authority, and she is to obey him, as he hopefully is following Christ. In this way, she is not to be his teacher, but he is the leader in the home.

I can't overlook the fact that this passage is included in a discussion of church offices. Chapter 3 goes into the qualifications for a bishop and deacon. At the same time, chapters 1 and 2 don't seem to be speaking of church offices, at least not to me. For instance, at the start of chapter 2, there is an exhortation for men everywhere to pray and intercede. That is not anything to do with a church office.

If you are correct, and women are not to teach men in the church, but to remain silent, how would that effect prophets? There have been female prophets. How about the be silent part? Does that mean they can't speak at all, or sing? Also, whose authority are they usurping? They are not under the authority of all men, but just their husbands. These are just things to consider. If women are not to teach men, period, that would certainly mean they can't be an adult Sunday School teacher. It would limit women to teaching women and children. I would be interested in the opinion of others concerning this, and your reason for feeling as you do.

[Guest Butero]

Just quoting scripture. Bible says women are not to be pastors or leaders. It shares reason for that. That being they were the first decieved.

No, it is not scriptural. The entire body of scripture attests to women who lead. Paul saw to it that women led, also. As Paul installed women as leaders in the church, then those who claim that they cannot lead need to revisit things and learn about context, or forever go around teaching that Paul is a hypocrite, speaking against something he fully was for.

So the verses I have quoted are hogwash? .....Yes, done here... for everything I have shared has been backed up with scripture. Yet when I ask for scripture to counter it, there is no backing.

I would be interested in knowing where Paul installed women into offices? I have no serious interest one way or the other with regard to women preachers, except to get to the truth. You are right that often times, people makes statements of fact with nothing to back them up. FA, can you back this up with scripture? Who were these women, and exactly what was their office?

[enoob57]

There are only two offices that women aren't Biblically qualified to do, and that is Bishop and Deacon. Those two offices require that the office holder be the "husband of one wife." You must be a married man to be a Bishop or Deacon. The reason why everyone thinks a woman can't be a Pastor is because we have made the Pastor into a Bishop, and given them that job description. If you separate the two offices, a woman is qualified to be a Pastor. Most churches won't do that, because the Pastor gets a salary, and the idea that their sole responsibility is the Word of God and prayer isn't enough. For that reason, women aren't qualified to serve as the Pastor at most churches today, but are qualified to be an associate Pastor, serving under a Pastor acting as the Bishop. This has absolutlely nothing to do with women being emotional or lacking understanding.

Pastors teach from the pulpit.

Women are not allowed to teach men.

1 Timothy 2:9-15

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed; then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

This is the passage you are refering to. Yes, it does forbid women to teach or usurp a man's authority. There are two ways to look at this. It could mean in the home, since the husband is the head of the wife. Adam chose to obey Eve, his wife, over the voice of God. When God set up the order of authority in the home, he made the husband the head of the wife, yet he is to obey God. The wife is not to try to usurp her husband's authority, and she is to obey him, as he hopefully is following Christ. In this way, she is not to be his teacher, but he is the leader in the home.

I can't overlook the fact that this passage is included in a discussion of church offices. Chapter 3 goes into the qualifications for a bishop and deacon. At the same time, chapters 1 and 2 don't seem to be speaking of church offices, at least not to me. For instance, at the start of chapter 2, there is an exhortation for men everywhere to pray and intercede. That is not anything to do with a church office.

If you are correct, and women are not to teach men in the church, but to remain silent, how would that effect prophets? There have been female prophets. How about the be silent part? Does that mean they can't speak at all, or sing? Also, whose authority are they usurping? They are not under the authority of all men, but just their husbands. These are just things to consider. If women are not to teach men, period, that would certainly mean they can't be an adult Sunday School teacher. It would limit women to teaching women and children. I would be interested in the opinion of others concerning this, and your reason for feeling as you do.

[Floatingaxe]

Female prophets did not, and do not teach in the assembly.

Perhaps you do not understand the gift of prophecy. Prophecy is more forthtelling than it is foretelling. Many people gifted with the ability to teach the word have the gift of prophecy. This gift is to be used in the assembly---it is for the Body of Christ! God bestows revelation and personal rhema to His people through the ministry of prophecy, and whether a woman or a man or a child possesses this anointing, it is not to be barred from the assembly.

[~candice~]

Female prophets did not, and do not teach in the assembly.

Perhaps you do not understand the gift of prophecy. Prophecy is more forthtelling than it is foretelling. Many people gifted with the ability to teach the word have the gift of prophecy. This gift is to be used in the assembly---it is for the Body of Christ! God bestows revelation and personal rhema to His people through the ministry of prophecy, and whether a woman or a man or a child possesses this anointing, it is not to be barred from the assembly.

Not quite! Prophecy can be of either type.

[Guest]

Female prophets did not, and do not teach in the assembly....

Leadership

And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. Exodus 15:20-21

In Joy

Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation. Habakkuk 3:18

Heidi Baker Preaches

And Her Letters To Creationists

http://letterstocreationists.wordpress.com/tag/heidi-baker/

[enoob57]

Female prophets did not, and do not teach in the assembly.

Perhaps you do not understand the gift of prophecy. Prophecy is more forthtelling than it is foretelling. Many people gifted with the ability to teach the word have the gift of prophecy. This gift is to be used in the assembly---it is for the Body of Christ! God bestows revelation and personal rhema to His people through the ministry of prophecy, and whether a woman or a man or a child possesses this anointing, it is not to be barred from the assembly.

This is not correct... for love is the obedience to Him

Deut 30:20

20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

NKJV

and again

1 Cor 14:28-38

28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Guest LadyC]

just throwing out a question here, because i skipped from page four to this last page....

to the person who said that there was a reason women are not supposed to preach/teach, that reason being that women were the first to be deceived...

are you seriously trying to imply that a man's preaching is infallible

Is that what the Word of God states in 1Ti 2:12-15?

no. God's word does not in any way state that man is incapable of screwing it up. God's word is inerrant. we, as christians, are to be as the bereans were and search the scriptures to make sure that what any man preaches is actually correct. so while 1 t 2:14 does reference woman first being deceived, that should NEVER be misconstrued to say that men are incapable of being deceived.

That was not said. Where did you get that from? Sorry but it is hard not to take offense.....words are continuously being put in mouths that were never said. NOWHERE was it said that men were incapable of being decieved. Scripture was merely being quoted so as to explain why women were not placed in that role..... not going to argue anymore... do not want to, and just can see that there is not going to be full agreement here which is understandable.

This conversation is all yours and for those who remain...

May God Bless You

Dani

yes, it was hard for ME not to take offense, which is why i ASKED the question in the first place... so that if i had misunderstood the response, it could be clarified. so instead of getting your drawers in a bunch, why not just address my question and clarify what you meant?

the comment you made, sounded, to me, like you were saying that the biblical explanation for women not being allowed to preach is that women were prone to being deceived. that implies, at least to me, that men are the ones who are called to preach because they are NOT prone to being deceived.

if that's not what you meant, please take the time to explain how you did mean it. because the bible most certainly does not mean it the way it came across to me when you wrote it. (wait, was it even you that wrote it? i haven't actually gone back to see. i'm just assuming, since you're the one getting all offended.)

the comment seems to have not been an issue for anyone else, but it DOES leave me wondering what the heck was meant. so whether i'm just obtuse or whatever, i'd appreciate a CIVIL explanation.

[Floatingaxe]

Female prophets did not, and do not teach in the assembly.

Perhaps you do not understand the gift of prophecy. Prophecy is more forthtelling than it is foretelling. Many people gifted with the ability to teach the word have the gift of prophecy. This gift is to be used in the assembly---it is for the Body of Christ! God bestows revelation and personal rhema to His people through the ministry of prophecy, and whether a woman or a man or a child possesses this anointing, it is not to be barred from the assembly.

Not quite! Prophecy can be of either type.

Most commonly, the prophetic gift is seen in the receiving of a personal revelation of the word through someone who is teaching or sharing from the word using that gift.