Can Women Lead The Flock?

[Guest Butero]

The NT records ministering women in the Church. Tabitha or Dorcas, a disciple, had a ministry of helps. (Acts 9:36). Philip’s four daughters worked in the ministry of prophet (Acts 21:8-9). Eidia and Syntyche, co-workers of Paul shared in his struggle in ministry to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Priscilla was an exemplary among “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” (Romans 16:3-4). Further, in Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministers of the gospel, many of them women.

Phoebe, a church leader in the church at Cenchrae, was highly commended by Paul tot he church at Rome (Romans 16:102). Unfortunately, the existing bias of modern English translators have in some ways obscured Phoebe’s position of leadership, calling her a ‘servant’ or ‘helper’ in the wrong sense of the word. The true sense of the word is as a helper in the sense of one who is in a higher position reaching down to help those in a lower position---the term was used to describe Caesar by historians also., so it was not sued in the sense of how we view helpers today---as those who are sybservient, helping those of hoghjer position, like an employer, for example. Phoebe was ‘diakonos’ of the church at Cenchrae. Paul would use this term to denote a minister pr leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, ‘diakonos’ is usually translated as ‘deacon’ or ‘minister’. Modernists would use the word ‘deaconness’ for Phoebe, but that would be a misapplication, and the distinction was never in the original Greek.

Junia was an apostle (Romans 16:7), yet many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit that there was a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias (the ‘-as’ ending also not a true masculine denotation, either).

The word shows that Paul was a strong advocate for women in ministry. The instances of women filling leadership roles in scripture needs to be considered a divinely approved pattern, and not as exceptions. God calls women and he equips women for their callings.

There were women that were fellow laborers in the ministry in various ways, but the Bible is pretty vague about exactly what they did. Dorcas sewed clothes for the poor. Phillip's 4 daughters prophecied, but it doesn't say they had a prophetic teaching ministry. We don't know what role Euodia and Syntyche played in laboring with Paul in the ministry? Priscilla and Aquila were husband and wife and helped Paul in the ministry. Phoebe is only mentioned as servant in the church. I hold only to the KJV of the Bible, so I go by what it says. There is no evidence that Junia was a woman. That is mere speculation.

The problem with all of your examples is that the Bible never goes into detail about these women and exactly what they did. I can not find any instance where they were appointed by Paul.

[enoob57]

Sinners are not saved, but the sinful are.

Sinners are sinful.

Now, what?

Well, are cats are animals.

But all the animals aren't cats.

All sinners are sinful.

But all the sinful aren't sinners.

This is one of those theological arguments that comes up when you are speaking to people of various belief systems. You would say that you are a sinner saved by grace, and FA would say she used to be a sinner, but now she is saved by grace. I know this because I have seen this point argued over the years, having family that is Baptist, and having been both Pentecostal and Methodist. That doesn't mean anyone believes we can ever live as pure as God's standard of holiness, but it means we don't believe we all sin on a regular basis. We believe that we have moved from sinners to saints as a result of the new birth. We still need God's grace. It is just that we have been given the ability to no longer live in wilful sin. I guess another way of putting it is a belief in sanctification as taught by Wesley.

The Lord has taught me that if I stand to take heed lest I fall... to arrive at any one place is still the lack of being perfected in His presence!

1 Cor 13:10

10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

NKJV

I see this as a continual happening until in Jesus' Presence so that the part is acceptable only to be done away with as the more perfected or rather the nearer to Christ's own Person as sanctification... because I don't see God removing perfect from His eternity!

Love, Steven

[Floatingaxe]

The NT records ministering women in the Church. Tabitha or Dorcas, a disciple, had a ministry of helps. (Acts 9:36). Philip’s four daughters worked in the ministry of prophet (Acts 21:8-9). Eidia and Syntyche, co-workers of Paul shared in his struggle in ministry to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Priscilla was an exemplary among “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” (Romans 16:3-4). Further, in Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministers of the gospel, many of them women.

Phoebe, a church leader in the church at Cenchrae, was highly commended by Paul tot he church at Rome (Romans 16:102). Unfortunately, the existing bias of modern English translators have in some ways obscured Phoebe’s position of leadership, calling her a ‘servant’ or ‘helper’ in the wrong sense of the word. The true sense of the word is as a helper in the sense of one who is in a higher position reaching down to help those in a lower position---the term was used to describe Caesar by historians also., so it was not sued in the sense of how we view helpers today---as those who are sybservient, helping those of hoghjer position, like an employer, for example. Phoebe was ‘diakonos’ of the church at Cenchrae. Paul would use this term to denote a minister pr leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, ‘diakonos’ is usually translated as ‘deacon’ or ‘minister’. Modernists would use the word ‘deaconness’ for Phoebe, but that would be a misapplication, and the distinction was never in the original Greek.

Junia was an apostle (Romans 16:7), yet many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit that there was a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias (the ‘-as’ ending also not a true masculine denotation, either).

The word shows that Paul was a strong advocate for women in ministry. The instances of women filling leadership roles in scripture needs to be considered a divinely approved pattern, and not as exceptions. God calls women and he equips women for their callings.

There were women that were fellow laborers in the ministry in various ways, but the Bible is pretty vague about exactly what they did. Dorcas sewed clothes for the poor. Phillip's 4 daughters prophecied, but it doesn't say they had a prophetic teaching ministry. We don't know what role Euodia and Syntyche played in laboring with Paul in the ministry? Priscilla and Aquila were husband and wife and helped Paul in the ministry. Phoebe is only mentioned as servant in the church. I hold only to the KJV of the Bible, so I go by what it says. There is no evidence that Junia was a woman. That is mere speculation.

The problem with all of your examples is that the Bible never goes into detail about these women and exactly what they did. I can not find any instance where they were appointed by Paul.

I figgered!

It matters not what they 'exactly did'! They were used by God in ministry, each gifted n her own way by Holy Spirit, and where it says that Phoebe was diakonos, it means she was a minister like every other diakonos. We aren't to stoop to the sexism that has been added to scripture by translators. Go by the full volume of the Book, where women were equalized by the Church of Jesus Christ---Jesus saw to it that it started with His Church, but I believe it has let Him down immeasurably. The world gets it, but the people of God have largely missed it. Satan is indeed cunning.

[enoob57]

Yes Enoob, we are divided.

Yes that was and will be awsome to be with Jesus... It is all my hope and desire as well Love, Steven

[Guest Butero]

The NT records ministering women in the Church. Tabitha or Dorcas, a disciple, had a ministry of helps. (Acts 9:36). Philip’s four daughters worked in the ministry of prophet (Acts 21:8-9). Eidia and Syntyche, co-workers of Paul shared in his struggle in ministry to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Priscilla was an exemplary among “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” (Romans 16:3-4). Further, in Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministers of the gospel, many of them women.

Phoebe, a church leader in the church at Cenchrae, was highly commended by Paul tot he church at Rome (Romans 16:102). Unfortunately, the existing bias of modern English translators have in some ways obscured Phoebe’s position of leadership, calling her a ‘servant’ or ‘helper’ in the wrong sense of the word. The true sense of the word is as a helper in the sense of one who is in a higher position reaching down to help those in a lower position---the term was used to describe Caesar by historians also., so it was not sued in the sense of how we view helpers today---as those who are sybservient, helping those of hoghjer position, like an employer, for example. Phoebe was ‘diakonos’ of the church at Cenchrae. Paul would use this term to denote a minister pr leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, ‘diakonos’ is usually translated as ‘deacon’ or ‘minister’. Modernists would use the word ‘deaconness’ for Phoebe, but that would be a misapplication, and the distinction was never in the original Greek.

Junia was an apostle (Romans 16:7), yet many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit that there was a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias (the ‘-as’ ending also not a true masculine denotation, either).

The word shows that Paul was a strong advocate for women in ministry. The instances of women filling leadership roles in scripture needs to be considered a divinely approved pattern, and not as exceptions. God calls women and he equips women for their callings.

There were women that were fellow laborers in the ministry in various ways, but the Bible is pretty vague about exactly what they did. Dorcas sewed clothes for the poor. Phillip's 4 daughters prophecied, but it doesn't say they had a prophetic teaching ministry. We don't know what role Euodia and Syntyche played in laboring with Paul in the ministry? Priscilla and Aquila were husband and wife and helped Paul in the ministry. Phoebe is only mentioned as servant in the church. I hold only to the KJV of the Bible, so I go by what it says. There is no evidence that Junia was a woman. That is mere speculation.

The problem with all of your examples is that the Bible never goes into detail about these women and exactly what they did. I can not find any instance where they were appointed by Paul.

I figgered!

It matters not what they 'exactly did'! They were used by God in ministry, each gifted n her own way by Holy Spirit, and where it says that Phoebe was diakonos, it means she was a minister like every other diakonos. We aren't to stoop to the sexism that has been added to scripture by translators. Go by the full volume of the Book, where women were equalized by the Church of Jesus Christ---Jesus saw to it that it started with His Church, but I believe it has let Him down immeasurably. The world gets it, but the people of God have largely missed it. Satan is indeed cunning.

That is just your opinion FA. I would suggest that the world doesn't get it. The world is in rebellion. God has an order he has established, and the world is constantly in rebellion against it, and unfortunatly, many in the church are following the world's rebellious ways. The word diakonia means attendance (as a servant, etc.), aid, teacher, and pastor, deacon, minister, servant. That word is so broad, there is no way to tell exactly what her role was. You want to believe so badly that women were used in every office men were, you stretch the truth to make it say what you want, like saying a person who was a Apostle was a woman, when there is no proof that was the case. Granted, people do it on the other side as well, but if I am looking at this objectively, the best I can say is we don't know. What I do know for a fact is that women are not allowed to serve as Bishops or Deacons because they can't be the husband of one wife. I know that those two offices must be held my married men, and not all married men, but those who meet additional qualifications.

[Floatingaxe]

That is just your opinion FA.

If it is my opinion, it is a God-ordained one.

I would suggest that the world doesn't get it. The world is in rebellion.

Shame on the Church for rebelling in a worse fashion towards their own sisters in Christ.

God has an order he has established, and the world is constantly in rebellion against it, and unfortunatly, many in the church are following the world's rebellious ways. The word diakonia means attendance (as a servant, etc.), aid, teacher, and pastor, deacon, minister, servant. That word is so broad, there is no way to tell exactly what her role was. You want to believe so badly that women were used in every office men were, you stretch the truth to make it say what you want, like saying a person who was a Apostle was a woman, when there is no proof that was the case. Granted, people do it on the other side as well, but if I am looking at this objectively, the best I can say is we don't know. What I do know for a fact is that women are not allowed to serve as Bishops or Deacons because they can't be the husband of one wife. I know that those two offices must be held my married men, and not all married men, but those who meet additional qualifications.

This isn't about order. In fact the belief that it is is what is causing this mess, with the male dominated culture insinuating itself among the Body of Christ.

I am not stretching the truth. I am compressing the misapprehension concerning women in ministry that has infiltrated the Church into the one main truth which is that Holy Spirit gifts and calls and equips and man, whether male or female, has no business under God to determine who is not able to serve God in the roles they were anointed to fill based on gender. That kind of belief falls under the category of pride and there is a very real and eternal consequence to that sin. So many commit it and don't even realize it.

Women can be bishops and deacons if God says they can. Man is the one telling them they can't. The spouse rule goes both ways, but in Paul's day, it was men who had more than one wife, not women, and so that issue needed addressing.

[Guest Butero]

That is just your opinion FA.

If it is my opinion, it is a God-ordained one.

I would suggest that the world doesn't get it. The world is in rebellion.

Shame on the Church for rebelling in a worse fashion towards their own sisters in Christ.

God has an order he has established, and the world is constantly in rebellion against it, and unfortunatly, many in the church are following the world's rebellious ways. The word diakonia means attendance (as a servant, etc.), aid, teacher, and pastor, deacon, minister, servant. That word is so broad, there is no way to tell exactly what her role was. You want to believe so badly that women were used in every office men were, you stretch the truth to make it say what you want, like saying a person who was a Apostle was a woman, when there is no proof that was the case. Granted, people do it on the other side as well, but if I am looking at this objectively, the best I can say is we don't know. What I do know for a fact is that women are not allowed to serve as Bishops or Deacons because they can't be the husband of one wife. I know that those two offices must be held my married men, and not all married men, but those who meet additional qualifications.

This isn't about order. In fact the belief that it is is what is causing this mess, with the male dominated culture insinuating itself among the Body of Christ.

I am not stretching the truth. I am compressing the misapprehension concerning women in ministry that has infiltrated the Church into the one main truth which is that Holy Spirit gifts and calls and equips and man, whether male or female, has no business under God to determine who is not able to serve God in the roles they were anointed to fill based on gender. That kind of belief falls under the category of pride and there is a very real and eternal consequence to that sin. So many commit it and don't even realize it.

Women can be bishops and deacons if God says they can. Man is the one telling them they can't. The spouse rule goes both ways, but in Paul's day, it was men who had more than one wife, not women, and so that issue needed addressing.

God says women can't be deacons and bishops in his Word. The word translated as husband is aner, and that can only be a man. It can never be a woman. Since God doesn't say women can be deacons and bishops, and on the contrary, states they can't, your argument holds no water. A deacon or bishop must be the husband (aner) of one wife (gune).

[~candice~]

The NT records ministering women in the Church. Tabitha or Dorcas, a disciple, had a ministry of helps. (Acts 9:36). Philip’s four daughters worked in the ministry of prophet (Acts 21:8-9). Eidia and Syntyche, co-workers of Paul shared in his struggle in ministry to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Priscilla was an exemplary among “fellow workers in Christ Jesus” (Romans 16:3-4). Further, in Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministers of the gospel, many of them women.

Phoebe, a church leader in the church at Cenchrae, was highly commended by Paul tot he church at Rome (Romans 16:102). Unfortunately, the existing bias of modern English translators have in some ways obscured Phoebe’s position of leadership, calling her a ‘servant’ or ‘helper’ in the wrong sense of the word. The true sense of the word is as a helper in the sense of one who is in a higher position reaching down to help those in a lower position---the term was used to describe Caesar by historians also., so it was not sued in the sense of how we view helpers today---as those who are sybservient, helping those of hoghjer position, like an employer, for example. Phoebe was ‘diakonos’ of the church at Cenchrae. Paul would use this term to denote a minister pr leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, ‘diakonos’ is usually translated as ‘deacon’ or ‘minister’. Modernists would use the word ‘deaconness’ for Phoebe, but that would be a misapplication, and the distinction was never in the original Greek.

Junia was an apostle (Romans 16:7), yet many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit that there was a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias (the ‘-as’ ending also not a true masculine denotation, either).

The word shows that Paul was a strong advocate for women in ministry. The instances of women filling leadership roles in scripture needs to be considered a divinely approved pattern, and not as exceptions. God calls women and he equips women for their callings.

There were women that were fellow laborers in the ministry in various ways, but the Bible is pretty vague about exactly what they did. Dorcas sewed clothes for the poor. Phillip's 4 daughters prophecied, but it doesn't say they had a prophetic teaching ministry. We don't know what role Euodia and Syntyche played in laboring with Paul in the ministry? Priscilla and Aquila were husband and wife and helped Paul in the ministry. Phoebe is only mentioned as servant in the church. I hold only to the KJV of the Bible, so I go by what it says. There is no evidence that Junia was a woman. That is mere speculation.

The problem with all of your examples is that the Bible never goes into detail about these women and exactly what they did. I can not find any instance where they were appointed by Paul.

I figgered!

It matters not what they 'exactly did'! They were used by God in ministry, each gifted n her own way by Holy Spirit, and where it says that Phoebe was diakonos, it means she was a minister like every other diakonos. We aren't to stoop to the sexism that has been added to scripture by translators. Go by the full volume of the Book, where women were equalized by the Church of Jesus Christ---Jesus saw to it that it started with His Church, but I believe it has let Him down immeasurably. The world gets it, but the people of God have largely missed it. Satan is indeed cunning.

It matters a lot what they did! It is the entire essence of the thread. Women can do something, but I think scripture makes it crystal clear that they are not to have authority over men in the overseer role. I think appealing to translators with an agenda reveals how weak the argument is in favour of women having equal roles as men. Having different roles, but the same value, is not sexism. It is how the Lord designed it.

[enoob57]

2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,

for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete,

thoroughly equipped for every good work.

NKJV

Axe are you in the camp of believers that believe new revelation is coming through the church nullifying

Scriptures now set in place? Love, Steven

[Floatingaxe]

God says women can't be deacons and bishops in his Word. The word translated as husband is aner, and that can only be a man. It can never be a woman. Since God doesn't say women can be deacons and bishops, and on the contrary, states they can't, your argument holds no water. A deacon or bishop must be the husband (aner) of one wife (gune).

the Word doesn't say that. That is a misapprehension of what God says. Serious error, really.