Jacob's trouble..?

[goldust59]

Lately, the term 'Jacob's trouble' has been coming to me a lot. Fixing to start a study on it to see if I can understand why it is called that. There must be a reason why the Lord calls it by Jacob & not Israel since he did change Jacob's name to Israel.

Anyone studied on this? Any thoughts as to why?

Jacob and Israel are interchanable terms and the Bible uses them that way in numerous places: Num. 24: 5, 17, Deut. 33:4,5, 8, 9, 10, 28; 1Kings 18:31; 2Kings 17:34; 1Chron. 16:13, 17; Psa. 14:7, 22:23, 53:6, 78:5, 81:4, 106:6, 10, 23, 114:1, 135:4; Is. 9:8,10:20, 14:1, 27:6, 29:23, 40:27, 41:8, 14, 42:24, 43:1, 22, 28, 44:1, 44:2, 21, 43, 45:4, 46:3 48:1, 12, 49:6; Jer. 2:4, 30:10; Eze. 20:5; Mic. 3:1,8,9; Nah. 2:2, Rom. 11:26.

The reason that God uses Jacob in this particular instance is to be all inclusive. At the time the prophecy, "Israel" was often used to designate northern kingdom that had separated from the southern kingom. However, by using the term "Jacob," there would exclucivity, as both northern and southern kingdoms were the sons of Jacob. So Jacob's trouble would apply to ALL the tribes not just the northern kingdom known as "Israel."

Today, we use the term Israel to refer to all twelve tribes.

K. Thanks shiloh!

[jasoncran]

The prophecies of Israsel's regathering in Ezekiel are being fulfillled to the very letter in modern Israel today.

shall be sanctified in them. Not happening. the vast majority of them are secularist.

Yes, but "secular" in Israel doesn't mean "non-religious." It doesn't carry the same meaning as it does here in the states. In Israel, "secular" means that you are not a member of the ultra-Orthodox sect. Most of Israelies are religous, torah-observant Jews. There is a fair amount of nonrelgious Jews, but they are not the majority. The majority of them are Torah-osbervant Jews (secular).

so torah(consertive) jews believe in abortion and gay rights? have you actually talked to them and well theres full preterism and partial. learn the difference. the problem i have with the church age and jew thing. is what will the jew when we he is saved? follow the torah or be under grace?

[jasoncran]

it doesnt but well since you claim that god would call isreal back , it would make sense that he would tell men and women are jews and which tribe they are. or you all dont believe that 144k thing literally?

So why did you need to proclaim this about yourself in this discussion? It was as if you were supporting your claim by putting forth some special position you have.

But let me ask you, how do you regard your brethren in blood, the descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel - the Jews?

that said if one doesnt know the seasons( time and seasons are two different words) time is when the season is and not knowing the season kinda means they arent meant to.

It was not for the Disciples then to know the future.

We however have a past and present we must discern.

Matthew 16:3 - "And in the morning, 'There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

Is this any less true now, that we need to discern the signs of the times?

It is not wise to not be vigilant to towards what the Lord is doing in modern times.

its not puffed up to believe what im told. i see more in the tanach then the nt when i came to the lord. insight was given as that is what i was told, its all verified by many here that know more then me as im not alone. as i said im unable fit jesus in a box.

When you put this forth as a trump card to anything you have to debate, it is. "God told me thus about myself, therefore I am right" - is how it came across.

so what would paul, john and others teach to the church then as isreal was still around when they were orall passing matthew around and also the other versions

It is unwise to speculate what they did and did not teach beyond what is recorded. This line of thinking is not the best way to present a case, nor to form theology.

yet you all do just that. you change the meanings of the number of the beast without any consideration to whom it was said too. if it was written after the apostleds death then you would have a case. so when the lord when you (the first audience included) see the aod and they all knew what he meant as they had the book of daniel. either these prophecies are specefic or they arent.

history shows that matthew 24 when it speaks of the aod and isreal then was literally fulfilled. read josephus' account.

on isreal, modern isreal isnt really what god had in mind. a secular goverment with religious courts for islam, jews and orthodox christians.,

i see the jews of lore as family as they are., does that mean the idea that isreal is the do all be all of gods plan for the earth? No he intends to redeem the earth.

so what would they tell the early church? that isreal was to come back or?

The early "church" had not experienced the destruction of Jerusalem and final scattering of the Jews. They had not known that the "church" would persecute Jews in the name of Christ for 2 mellenia.

[Guest shiloh357]

so torah(consertive) jews believe in abortion and gay rights?

No, I don't think I said that.

have you actually talked to them and well theres full preterism and partial. learn the difference.

I know the difference. The question was about what preterism is, not what partial preterism is.

the problem i have with the church age and jew thing. is what will the jew when we he is saved? follow the torah or be under grace?

Try learning how to type proper sentences using proper grammar. Your posts would be easier to respond to.

[jasoncran]

then what exactly is isreal? a secular state or a jewish one. i know what it is as i have read up on it as isreal a jewish state(ethnic) and allows religious freedom. my grandmother and grandfather are jewish and their tanach has the state of isreal proclamation as a state and brags that freedom of religion is allowed. ancient isreal was not to tolerate idolatry. that said i understand why they went that way as they learned from the us that a theocracy wont work and wanted to start from our example.

[Guest shiloh357]

then what exactly is isreal? a secular state or a jewish one.

It is a Jewish nation. That is what it was created to be and that is its inherent character.

i know what it is as i have read up on it as isreal a jewish state(ethnic) and allows religious freedom. my grandmother and grandfather are jewish and their tanach has the state of isreal proclamation as a state and brags that freedom of religion is allowed.

Israel allows freedom of religion, speech to everyone, much the same way we do in the US. It is one of Israel's most attractive qualities. Israel even extends charity to their neighbors that hate them.

ancient isreal was not to tolerate idolatry. that said i understand why they went that way as they learned from the us that a theocracy wont work and wanted to start from our example.

Israel did not pattern itself after the United States. Even the IDF is not patterned after the US military.

[jasoncran]

then what exactly is isreal? a secular state or a jewish one.

It is a Jewish nation. That is what it was created to be and that is its inherent character.

i know what it is as i have read up on it as isreal a jewish state(ethnic) and allows religious freedom. my grandmother and grandfather are jewish and their tanach has the state of isreal proclamation as a state and brags that freedom of religion is allowed.

Israel allows freedom of religion, speech to everyone, much the same way we do in the US. It is one of Israel's most attractive qualities. Israel even extends charity to their neighbors that hate them.

ancient isreal was not to tolerate idolatry. that said i understand why they went that way as they learned from the us that a theocracy wont work and wanted to start from our example.

Israel did not pattern itself after the United States. Even the IDF is not patterned after the US military.

i m not saying that. so where the idea of freedom of religion come from,? it wasnt from the eu was it as they got that from us. did the eu allows freedom of religion first

and no isreal has some minor restrictions on freedom that i fully understand. one cant street witnees there.one cant also be married by the state there if one is in certian faiths.

interesting and i agree on that as they had too, our is based on english and french traditions with our own lessons. im sure we have influenced the idf far more then you say. the ranks are the same just listed in different category for the army terms that is. i would be close a warrant though like in ww2 there was no ssg it was sfc.

[Guest shiloh357]

interesting and i agree on that as they had too, our is based on english and french traditions with our own lessons. im sure we have influenced the idf far more then you say.

ACtually, the IDF is patterned after the Swiss military, not the US military.

i m not saying that. so where the idea of freedom of religion come from,?

It was a response to the lack of freedoms they had in Europe where being Jewish was crime. Israel strives not to treat other religions, the way Europe treated the Jews. The Jewish ethic at work in Israel generally speaking is to refrain from treating nonJews in their midst the way nonJews treated the Jewish people in Europe and elsewhere. That ethic does have both rabbincal and biblical precedent.

[jasoncran]

i can see that, sadly my dad didnt care for his jewish heritage and didnt inform me of that too much. im sure that my grandmother being a member of haddashah would see that.

even though i differ on the modern state in prophecy im for its continued existance as both the us and europe have some poor historuy with the hebrews. thanks for the education. contrary to what the media says about isreal its not so simple for them and for the most part they arent the bad guys.

[Zemke]

We have to remember this discussion began with a question about "Jacobs" trouble. The Jews in the land are not yet a holy nation, they are heading for the time of Jacobs trouble. Final judgement for rejecting the law which has led them to reject their Messiah Jesus. The curse of the law. At some point during this horrible time the Jews will one way or another see that Jesus is the Messiah and cry out to Him and all Israel shall be saved as Paul speaks about in Romans 11.

I'm not saying I have it all figured out it's just an attempt, explaining in short how I understand it up to this point.

When we look at world events that have set the stage for fulfillment of prophetic events it isn't sweet and clean. Over six million Jews exterminated to soften the nations and open a door for the Jews to return. This world is a mess and I know we are all called to do something, all having a ministry and we should seek Him daily on that issue but I'm also looking for that city built by Him and we need to pray to see as many as we can enter with us.