He who does what is sinful is of the devil.

[Guest shiloh357]

Metaphorically Is used much the same way as hyperbole, and the people who use this tool are of course the experts who can tell one just what Jesus meant. Wow they must be really intelligent, like us simple people can’t read, and understand.

So when Jesus said, "if your right hand causes you to sin cut it off," You believe that Jesus was telling us to mutilate our body when we sin??

The tool often used is the Greek Word.

I believe the Holy Spirit was much involved with the people that translated the Greek scripture to the English version. I also believe they understood the Greek as well or better than the people who try to make people believe the English version is not accurate.

What a con and an elitist act it is to use a study of a language to try and convince others he or she is right because they have some special knowledge of a language.

You really don't know what you are talking about. The NT was written in Greek. The problem with translating is that Greek is far more nuanced than English. A translation is not an interpretation. Translating means you have to find the best word in English that communicates the Greek word. Sometimes it takes several pages in English to completely understand a word in Greek, which is why we have dictionaries and lexicons that take the time and space to elucidate how words in Greek are used in the NT.

The problem is that you have a wicked, personal agenda as a false prophet and anything that casts doubt on your poor handling of Scripture and exposes the falsiity of your claims is immediately demonized by you, but from pure ignorance on your part.

[Thankful x10]

People ask yourselves; can one truly be following Jesus if one sins? Remember a Christian walks as Jesus walked.

A sinner will never enter the kingdom of God, because a sinner is of the devil.

(Galatians 5:16)“Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence....”.

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”

[AnotherSinner]

Read Romans eight. The only way for one to live a sinless life is to have the indwelling of God/Holy Spirit. Only through the grace given to one by the Holy Spirit can one defeat Satan/sin.

actually, what it says in Romans 8 is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the witness that we are the children of God. Romans 8 says nothing about living a sinless life. It says that the righteousness of the law is fullfilled within us. Furthermore, Jesus has already defeated Satan. I don't need to defeat Satan. He was defeated 2000 years ago by Jesus. I walk in the victory that Jesus won FOR me. I don't need to re-fight a war that has already been won.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Think of what that verse says. Jesus came to abolish sin.

Yes, but that reality is not part of our experience. One thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between how the Bible speaks of "sin" in terms of our bondage to the dominion of sin (our sinful condition) and eradication of any possibilty of committing sin. "Sin" is still here on the earth. It is still part of the human experience, so it is not "abolished." Jesus came to abolish sin, but that reality will not be manifest until He returns and sets the world aright.

Romans 1:1-5:11 speaks of the sins we commit. Romans 5:12-8:39 speaks to the bondage of sin we are born into by default as human beings. God works from the inside out. He has set us free from the law of sin and death, but that does not automatically mean that we never, ever sin again as human beings. We all have personality flaws, and shortcomings and you are only fooling yourself if you think you have not sinned in the last year or whatever.

John tells us that if one sins he or she has never seen Jesus no does he or she know Jesus.

What John is saying when you exmaine the original Greek is that those who live in perpetual, habitual, ongoing sin have never known Jesus. He is not saying that if you sin ONE time, you have never known Jesus. You are completely misunderstanding John.

As Christians we cannot receive the false teachings and sloppy theology you are peddling on this board.

You truly can’t see what is done to scripture to make it fit what you want to believe?

My job is just to give a word. I have given that word to you. I also give my witness that a Christian does not sin.

So then...are you declaring yourself sinless?

Why then...would you need Jesus at all?

[Thankful x10]

Read Romans eight. The only way for one to live a sinless life is to have the indwelling of God/Holy Spirit. Only through the grace given to one by the Holy Spirit can one defeat Satan/sin.

actually, what it says in Romans 8 is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the witness that we are the children of God. Romans 8 says nothing about living a sinless life. It says that the righteousness of the law is fullfilled within us. Furthermore, Jesus has already defeated Satan. I don't need to defeat Satan. He was defeated 2000 years ago by Jesus. I walk in the victory that Jesus won FOR me. I don't need to re-fight a war that has already been won.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Think of what that verse says. Jesus came to abolish sin.

Yes, but that reality is not part of our experience. One thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between how the Bible speaks of "sin" in terms of our bondage to the dominion of sin (our sinful condition) and eradication of any possibilty of committing sin. "Sin" is still here on the earth. It is still part of the human experience, so it is not "abolished." Jesus came to abolish sin, but that reality will not be manifest until He returns and sets the world aright.

Romans 1:1-5:11 speaks of the sins we commit. Romans 5:12-8:39 speaks to the bondage of sin we are born into by default as human beings. God works from the inside out. He has set us free from the law of sin and death, but that does not automatically mean that we never, ever sin again as human beings. We all have personality flaws, and shortcomings and you are only fooling yourself if you think you have not sinned in the last year or whatever.

John tells us that if one sins he or she has never seen Jesus no does he or she know Jesus.

What John is saying when you exmaine the original Greek is that those who live in perpetual, habitual, ongoing sin have never known Jesus. He is not saying that if you sin ONE time, you have never known Jesus. You are completely misunderstanding John.

As Christians we cannot receive the false teachings and sloppy theology you are peddling on this board.

You truly can’t see what is done to scripture to make it fit what you want to believe?

My job is just to give a word. I have given that word to you. I also give my witness that a Christian does not sin.

So then...are you declaring yourself sinless?

Why then...would you need Jesus at all?

God has made a home in me, and it is because of God’s protection of his home that allows me to never sin.

(John 14:21-23) “Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, ‘Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

[AnotherSinner]

Read Romans eight. The only way for one to live a sinless life is to have the indwelling of God/Holy Spirit. Only through the grace given to one by the Holy Spirit can one defeat Satan/sin.

actually, what it says in Romans 8 is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the witness that we are the children of God. Romans 8 says nothing about living a sinless life. It says that the righteousness of the law is fullfilled within us. Furthermore, Jesus has already defeated Satan. I don't need to defeat Satan. He was defeated 2000 years ago by Jesus. I walk in the victory that Jesus won FOR me. I don't need to re-fight a war that has already been won.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Think of what that verse says. Jesus came to abolish sin.

Yes, but that reality is not part of our experience. One thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between how the Bible speaks of "sin" in terms of our bondage to the dominion of sin (our sinful condition) and eradication of any possibilty of committing sin. "Sin" is still here on the earth. It is still part of the human experience, so it is not "abolished." Jesus came to abolish sin, but that reality will not be manifest until He returns and sets the world aright.

Romans 1:1-5:11 speaks of the sins we commit. Romans 5:12-8:39 speaks to the bondage of sin we are born into by default as human beings. God works from the inside out. He has set us free from the law of sin and death, but that does not automatically mean that we never, ever sin again as human beings. We all have personality flaws, and shortcomings and you are only fooling yourself if you think you have not sinned in the last year or whatever.

John tells us that if one sins he or she has never seen Jesus no does he or she know Jesus.

What John is saying when you exmaine the original Greek is that those who live in perpetual, habitual, ongoing sin have never known Jesus. He is not saying that if you sin ONE time, you have never known Jesus. You are completely misunderstanding John.

As Christians we cannot receive the false teachings and sloppy theology you are peddling on this board.

You truly can’t see what is done to scripture to make it fit what you want to believe?

My job is just to give a word. I have given that word to you. I also give my witness that a Christian does not sin.

So then...are you declaring yourself sinless?

Why then...would you need Jesus at all?

God has made a home in me, and it is because of God’s protection of his home that allows me to never sin.

(John 14:21-23) “Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, ‘Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

So you are perfect then? Why do you need Jesus at all?

This passage does not speak of any perfection being had after God being within you. Rather it says that anyone who LOVES Jesus will follow His teachings and do as He instructed us to do. Also that God will love this person and will come into Him making a home therein.

[xero]

To deny you have a point would be foolish but the implication is terrible. Who can be saved if upon coming into knowledge of the Lord one sin and youre eternally condemned. Truly it would be better to live in ignorance never knowing the Lord and be granted mercy in ignorance than to be condemned by knowledge. Did Jesus save us merely to condemn us? Perish the thought, as Im done entertaining the notion, sin is missing the mark and you have most certainly missed the point of salvation. It is by FAITH ALONE that we are saved LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST! Yes faith without works is dead but it is only by faith in Christ that we are saved not personal merit. This brings us to how we are to be judged Matthew 25:34-46 tells us exactly what is to take place. What you do unto these the least my brethren you do unto me. I dont see Jesus weighing a persons righteousness and sins in the balance and determining if one outweighs the other rather its based on charity. He doesnt say enter the Kingdom because you prophecied in my name or because you were sinless after hearing testimony of Me, nope, He says what you do unto these the least of my brethren you do unto me. Jesus gave me a message too, though I didnt see or hear Him with physical senses, I read the Bible and through His Word He told me what He had to say. Love God with all your heart all your mind and all your soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself also love your enemy its a very consistant message with emphasis on LOVE not sin. We sin, its the nature of being a sinner, but Jesus is our salvation. Read the admonishment to the seven churches in Revelations and tell me if the saints dont sin after Jesus chews them out for their sins! Quite frankly noone would survive judgement if you were judge. Thank God He is Judge; yet it is we who judge ourselves for as you judge so you shall be judged, what a conundrum you have placed yourself in! By asserting others must be sinless once converted you have subjected yourself to the same determination, honestly I hope you are capable of the task, truly Im not and Ive never heard of nor met anyone who could so forgive my skepticism but your posts carry an tone that screams pride. It takes one to know one so yeah pride has been my failing as well.

[AnotherSinner]

Sinless Perfectionism: Are We No Longer Capable of Sinning As Christians?

Found this.....really enlightening, and perhaps much needed in this thread.

http://www.epm.org/blog/2010/Jun/30/sinless-perfectionism-are-we-capable

There is also this:

http://www.christianissues.biz/blog/wordpress/?p=501

The passage that spoke the most to me was this one:

1 John 1:8 (NIV)

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

There is nothing more I am going to contribute to this ongoing discussion from here on, save for prayer.

May God Bless You

Dani

[Thankful x10]

Read Romans eight. The only way for one to live a sinless life is to have the indwelling of God/Holy Spirit. Only through the grace given to one by the Holy Spirit can one defeat Satan/sin.

actually, what it says in Romans 8 is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the witness that we are the children of God. Romans 8 says nothing about living a sinless life. It says that the righteousness of the law is fullfilled within us. Furthermore, Jesus has already defeated Satan. I don't need to defeat Satan. He was defeated 2000 years ago by Jesus. I walk in the victory that Jesus won FOR me. I don't need to re-fight a war that has already been won.

(1 John 3: 5 - 6) “ Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.”

Think of what that verse says. Jesus came to abolish sin.

Yes, but that reality is not part of our experience. One thing you need to understand is that there is a difference between how the Bible speaks of "sin" in terms of our bondage to the dominion of sin (our sinful condition) and eradication of any possibilty of committing sin. "Sin" is still here on the earth. It is still part of the human experience, so it is not "abolished." Jesus came to abolish sin, but that reality will not be manifest until He returns and sets the world aright.

Romans 1:1-5:11 speaks of the sins we commit. Romans 5:12-8:39 speaks to the bondage of sin we are born into by default as human beings. God works from the inside out. He has set us free from the law of sin and death, but that does not automatically mean that we never, ever sin again as human beings. We all have personality flaws, and shortcomings and you are only fooling yourself if you think you have not sinned in the last year or whatever.

John tells us that if one sins he or she has never seen Jesus no does he or she know Jesus.

What John is saying when you exmaine the original Greek is that those who live in perpetual, habitual, ongoing sin have never known Jesus. He is not saying that if you sin ONE time, you have never known Jesus. You are completely misunderstanding John.

As Christians we cannot receive the false teachings and sloppy theology you are peddling on this board.

You truly can’t see what is done to scripture to make it fit what you want to believe?

My job is just to give a word. I have given that word to you. I also give my witness that a Christian does not sin.

So then...are you declaring yourself sinless?

Why then...would you need Jesus at all?

God has made a home in me, and it is because of God’s protection of his home that allows me to never sin.

(John 14:21-23) “Whoever holds to my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me; and whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I shall love him and reveal myself to him.' Judas –not Judas Iscariot – said to him, ‘Lord, what has happened that you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world? Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

So you are perfect then? Why do you need Jesus at all?

This passage does not speak of any perfection being had after God being within you. Rather it says that anyone who LOVES Jesus will follow His teachings and do as He instructed us to do. Also that God will love this person and will come into Him making a home therein.

That is right we are to follow what Jesus said. He said go and sin no more. He called us to be perfect.

(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

[Thankful x10]

Sinless Perfectionism: Are We No Longer Capable of Sinning As Christians?

Found this.....really enlightening, and perhaps much needed in this thread.

http://www.epm.org/blog/2010/Jun/30/sinless-perfectionism-are-we-capable

There is also this:

http://www.christianissues.biz/blog/wordpress/?p=501

The passage that spoke the most to me was this one:

1 John 1:8 (NIV)

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

There is nothing more I am going to contribute to this ongoing discussion from here on, save for prayer.

May God Bless You

No it is just your understanding of the bible that is flawed. 

Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.”  Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not?  John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars. 

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.  Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law.  Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him.  My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning.  It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared.  No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.” 

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person. 

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”  

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time.  They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

Dani

Edited April 11, 2012 by Thankful x10

[Thankful x10]

To deny you have a point would be foolish but the implication is terrible. Who can be saved if upon coming into knowledge of the Lord one sin and youre eternally condemned. Truly it would be better to live in ignorance never knowing the Lord and be granted mercy in ignorance than to be condemned by knowledge. Did Jesus save us merely to condemn us? Perish the thought, as Im done entertaining the notion, sin is missing the mark and you have most certainly missed the point of salvation. It is by FAITH ALONE that we are saved LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST! Yes faith without works is dead but it is only by faith in Christ that we are saved not personal merit. This brings us to how we are to be judged Matthew 25:34-46 tells us exactly what is to take place. What you do unto these the least my brethren you do unto me. I dont see Jesus weighing a persons righteousness and sins in the balance and determining if one outweighs the other rather its based on charity. He doesnt say enter the Kingdom because you prophecied in my name or because you were sinless after hearing testimony of Me, nope, He says what you do unto these the least of my brethren you do unto me. Jesus gave me a message too, though I didnt see or hear Him with physical senses, I read the Bible and through His Word He told me what He had to say. Love God with all your heart all your mind and all your soul and love your neighbor as you love yourself also love your enemy its a very consistant message with emphasis on LOVE not sin. We sin, its the nature of being a sinner, but Jesus is our salvation. Read the admonishment to the seven churches in Revelations and tell me if the saints dont sin after Jesus chews them out for their sins! Quite frankly noone would survive judgement if you were judge. Thank God He is Judge; yet it is we who judge ourselves for as you judge so you shall be judged, what a conundrum you have placed yourself in! By asserting others must be sinless once converted you have subjected yourself to the same determination, honestly I hope you are capable of the task, truly Im not and Ive never heard of nor met anyone who could so forgive my skepticism but your posts carry an tone that screams pride. It takes one to know one so yeah pride has been my failing as well.

Remember something that being saved does not mean one will enter the kingdom of God. If you believe it does mean that, then show me using the written Word of God.

Paul tells us that a sinner will never enter the kingdom of God. That again is written in the bible. Where then does one who will be judged under the law go if he or she did not live God’s Word?

(Galations 5:13-26)

Scripture tells us what will happen to one who does know God and deliberately commits a sin.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.”