Kim Clement

[Guest yod]

maybe he could get a job as a Weather man???

they are never right either.

[AnotherTraveler]

I think that killing all the Elijah List "prophets" would be a bit drastic. Still....they are false.

maybe he could get a job as a Weather man??? they are never right either.

You might have just made a lot of weathermen nervous.

[nebula]

In all fairness to weathermen . . .

I am taking a Meteorology class right now.

In this class, we are starting to learn about factors "creating" weather. From having previously taken an Oceanography class, I can tell you that the forces influencing the ocean and air currents - producing weather events - are many and complex. One force on its own is easy to understand. HOw two forces affect each other gets a bit more complicated to figure out. Add another, and your brain starts short-circuiting trying to figure out. Put them all together, and forget it!

Now, suppose you manage to get it all figured out. YOu can input every known variable into a computer modes, and it will tell you what will happen in the next hour and up to 1-2 weeks.

Now here's the catch. You only inputted known variables.

There are many factors influencing weather that are "unknowns." Not unknown in that there are forces undiscovered so much as fators that cannot be predicted or discovered.

Example.

We just learned about stable vs unstable air. Unstable air, put simply, is prone to rising and having its water vapor condensing into clouds, and clouds when built up sufficiently produce precipitation.

This is known.

What is unknown is whether or not the unstable air will experience a disturbance (such as the flapping of a butterfly's wings - ring a bell anyone? - "the butterfly effect") that will trigger the process which will lead to cloud formation or addition.

Likewise, there is conditionally unstable air, which means air stability depends on how much humidity is in the air, and this can be dependent on air temperature and surface temperature and moisture level of the surface and such.

So, weathermen can only tell you what can be expected to happen based on the "the large scale" data. The small scale data, those little things that may cause air parcels to rise and be reacted to, cannot be predicted.

And this is only one of the factors influencing weather. HOw many more there are, I'll have to see as I continue through the course.

This is why weather is known as "chaos theory." It is just way too chaotic to grasp a 100% hold of.

*****************************************************

Comment of prophets and prophecying.

When I read the OT prophets, the whole point of their prophecies is to return the hearts of the people to their God. Prophecies of future events are meant to lead people to repentance.

These "prophecies" given now adays - what exactly is their point and purpose, anyway?

[AnotherTraveler]

(Judg 7:13 KJV) And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.

(Judg 7:14 KJV) And his fellow answered and said, This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon the son of Joash, a man of Israel: for into his hand hath God delivered Midian, and all the host.

(Judg 7:15 KJV) And it was so, when Gideon heard the telling of the dream, and the interpretation thereof, that he worshipped, and returned into the host of Israel, and said, Arise; for the LORD hath delivered into your hand the host of Midian.

These "prophecies" given now adays - what exactly is their point and purpose, anyway?

In the story above, Gideon needed confirmation, and we have all heard of the wet/dry fleece, which also was for confirmation.

In our day, if you were really concerned for Irish orphans, and you really wanted to help Irish orphans (even if you have never heard of any), so much so that you found yourself praying for them, searching for an opportunity to give support to an Irish orphanage, and you have this strange loving desire to serve at an Irish orphanage, but you realize that you are JUST a housewife, or a widow, or a teen, or whatever, so you just do the best that you can to scratch this spiritual itch.

Along comes someone that has no idea what you are going through, and says, "The Lord is really pleased with your willingness to serve the orphans, and He will open doors on your behalf to serve even more." You are encouraged by this confirmation.

Now a skeptic might say, there was no mention of "IRISH", that's true. And if you asked the person that told you this, they probably would not have any further information either. The purpose was to confirm what the Lord was directing you to do, and to let you know that the Lord was pleased. These types of prophecies might come through anyone.

In Acts the prophet Agabus prophecied of a famine (this is a natural warning) and of Paul's pending arrest in Jesusalem (a personal warning). These are both examples of the future that gives enough information to possibly respond to the coming situation. Most of these kind of prophecies come through someone that is a prophet, or serving in the office of a prophet.

[nebula]

Hey, A.Traveller -

I don't mean to belittle the prophetic word, please understand. In fact, I in my own life have been encouraged by such as you claimed above.

However, all these prophecies about world events - like mentioned in the OP - that don't come to pass. What is their purpose?

[AnotherTraveler]

However, all these prophecies about world events - like mentioned in the OP - that don't come to pass. What is their purpose?

Well, the unfortunate result of this kind of obvious error is to authenticate any observing critical voice, and I believe that the enemy of our souls gets a kick out of making Christians look foolish on a large public scale.

The individuals that speak like this frequently (the one prophecying) and yet continue to be clearly talking out of their hat, there two things that seem obvious, one is they don't have wise friends that rebuke such nonsense, and two is even if they do have such, they are not allowing them to correct this foolishness.

From another view...

If world announced future events occurs as spoken in the Lord's name consistantly through "Al", eventually the most ardant critic allows that there is something to what Al says. One day when Al warns of a flood here tomorrow, and the critic hears about it, the critic might just go to higher ground (to be safe), and beside saving his/her life, they might come to understand that there is a real God that stil deals with the sons of men, and the critic gets saved. Salvation is always the reason that God has in mind for whatever He does in our lives.

[Guest LMKloft]

This thread caught my eye, not because of Kim Clement, but because of the content of the prophecy. A pastor in Nebraska, 2 weeks ago, prophesied something very similar. He also said that if the body of the church fasted and prayed (primarily from Oct 1-8), the hand of God would stay the impending evil that was to invade the Midwest (primarily the St. Louis area about the time of the debates). This was to strengthen our faith, because if we obeyed with the fasting and praying, God's Hand would prevail. The pastor was also told by God to call the Body to fast and pray and to INTERCEDE up to the election, that holy men and women would rise up to take their places in the political process. And that if no one intereceded, then God would allow evil to have its way. We were to see the fruits of our spiritual labors at the end of the election Nov 2. To me, the Nebraska pastor validated what Kim Clement said. And, during this time (Oct 1-8) God called me to fast and pray for our political leaders. God called me to fast and pray even before I knew about the Nebraska prophecy and the Clement prophecy. So, with all 3 of those things involved, I felt pretty certain what God was trying to say that He wanted us to accomplish.

[Guest yod]

In all fairness to weathermen . . .

Sorry if I insulted them by making a comparison to some "modern day" prophets.

[AnotherTraveler]

To me, the Nebraska pastor validated what Kim Clement said.

You see a validation, and there do seem to be similarities, but I suggest that you might be biased because you are certain that (1) the Lord called you to fast and pray (2) you obviously respect the pastor (3) you believe that the prophecy of the Nebraska pastor is true (4) you see the similarities and (5) you have not looked with a critical eye at what Kim said.

Something unusual shall take place during a 2nd debate that shall cause this nation to begin to fear and tremble.

I will bring something unusual to happen. There shall be a threat against the President Elect.

This nation is not beginning to fear and tremble, as no unusual event occurred.

There was no threat against the President Elect, nothing unusual happened.

The term unusual implies that the hearers understand what usual is, and the use of indefinate terms that really can be twisted every direction is a common tactic of prognosticators. (As opposed to prophets)

President Elect refers to whom? We have a President now, and we have two major candidates, and neither would be a President Elect at this point.

If a person prophecied last week that chocolate is the best flavor, and something unusual will happen next week to confirm this, and this week Christoper Reeves passed away, and he played superman, and his movies were sponsored by Hersheys Chocolate, so this is all tied up in a nice little package. No!

LMKloft, I have no problem with what you wrote except to use what was obviously real to you to validate what DID NOT OCCUR in the prophecy that Kim gave which said would occur. Didn't happen.

Our nation would do well to be in fear and trembling, if they were fearing the Lord, but our nation is not. There was no THREAT, which is a real problem.

Understand that I love true prophecy, but I can't stand our willingness to "spin" an out and out miss. We will never have valid prophetic recognition as long as we are willing to say, oh, yea, this was right, when it was not right.

(Jer 28:6 KJV) Even the prophet Jeremiah said, Amen: the LORD do so: the LORD perform thy words which thou hast prophesied, to bring again the vessels of the LORD'S house, and all that is carried away captive, from Babylon into this place.

(Jer 28:7 KJV) Nevertheless hear thou now this word that I speak in thine ears, and in the ears of all the people;

(Jer 28:8 KJV) The prophets that have been before me and before thee of old prophesied both against many countries, and against great kingdoms, of war, and of evil, and of pestilence.

(Jer 28:9 KJV) The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.

Jeremiah liked the false prophecy better than what the Lord had revealed to him, but it is the coming to pass of what is said that makes the prophet valid, and Kim missed it here, sorry, but that is my opinion. Don't go stone him, no punishment implied here, but we must acknowledge that what was said did not occur.

Edited October 11, 2004 by AnotherTraveler

[Guest LMKloft]

Your points are strong and backed by scripture. But, ealier in this thread, someone discussed 2 different types of prophecy: the kind that would happen no matter what we did and the kind that could be altered by human prayer and interecession. The Nebraska pastor stated in his prophecy that the outcome of this political time could be altered thru intercession. Do you suppose that the Clement prophecy was based on what would/could have happened if prayer, intercession, and obedient fasting had not been employed? Didn't God tell Israel that He would punish them, but Moses intereceded for them, so the outcome God had promised was altered? I don't know all the answers about this topic, because I'm very new in my close walk with the Lord. All I know is that I felt I was obedient to what God directed me to do. God doesn't always take the time to explain Himself to me. He doesn't have to. Like any good parent, He sometimes expects obedience with few questions, except to make sure that what is being asked is "of God". Thanks for allowing me to be part of this discussion. I feel like I am learning lots by reading the replies from everyone in this thread and other threads on this website.