Infant baptism

[Khristeeanos]

Jake.

Yes, but only *IF* they "call upon the name of the Lord."

What happens if they are dumb? Are you going to start to make exceptions?

johnp.

How do you know that I am not dumb?

I do feel that we should be more compassionate towards those who don't have full capacity to speak.

[johnP]

shiloh357.

What's the Millenium? If it is a thousand year rule I do not believe it.

Regardless of that the scriptures were written for the Church. The passages are talking about the Church. Israel was just a type. We are the reality.

PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children--

PS 103:18 with those who keep his covenant and remember to obey his precepts.

You misuse the English. The bit in the commas is an aside. Verse 18 is a continuation from verse 17 before the comma.

johnp.

[johnP]

Tess.

If everyone were automatically included in salvation simply by inheritance...wouldn't everyone post-flood have been saved?

Eli was also saved and lost his kids. So I did cover this point in a way. He did not restrain them so we take that responsibility as parents. To bring them up right. I did say that there was a downside. It is a general thing not absolute.

johnp.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357.

What's the Millenium? If it is a thousand year rule I do not believe it.

Regardless of that the scriptures were written for the Church. The passages are talking about the Church. Israel was just a type. We are the reality.

PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children--

PS 103:18 with those who keep his covenant and remember to obey his precepts.

You misuse the English. The bit in the commas is an aside. Verse 18 is a continuation from verse 17 before the comma.

johnp.

Doesn't matter if you believe in the Millenium or not. It is real and that is what the Bible says. God is very clear about a one thousand year reign of the Messiah on the earth. Your unbelief will not change the Word of God.

Regardless of that the scriptures were written for the Church. The passages are talking about the Church.

Do you also apply all other verses pertaining to Israel as pertaining to the church? Do you stay kosher? Would you and your wife (if you are married) practice the laws of Niddah, concerning the separation of man and wife during her menstrual cycle? Or do you like so many other people select the verses about Israel that you WANT to apply to the church?

Verse about Israel are about Israel. Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church, period. Sounds to me like you are into heavy replacement theology.

Frankly you are going to have to a lot better than this at defending infant baptism. There is not ONE NT commandment to baptize infants.

I did not misuse the English. If you look at it in Hebrew, the obligation to keep the covenant is upon the parent AND the children. So, again you do not have a case with the passage in Psalms.

[johnP]

shiloh357.

Do you also apply all other verses pertaining to Israel as pertaining to the church? Do you stay kosher?

Now I thought the law had been dropped for us. There are rules that applied to the nation that do not apply to us but all the promises do belong to us.

Verse about Israel are about Israel. Israel is Israel and the Church is the Church, period. Sounds to me like you are into heavy replacement theology.

So you believe Israel is not the type for the Church?

Frankly you are going to have to a lot better than this at defending infant baptism. There is not ONE NT commandment to baptize infants.

I know I am going to have to do better at defending infant baptism. I'll get round to that when I believe in it.

I did not misuse the English. If you look at it in Hebrew, the obligation to keep the covenant is upon the parent AND the children. So, again you do not have a case with the passage in Psalms.

But I do have a case. What's the covenant to be kept? The law is it? Have the translators erred here with their commas?

johnp.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357.

QUOTE

[johnP]

shiloh357.

Replacement theology is new to me. Never heard of it and don't know what it means.

Saying that Israel is a type of the church, and saying that Israel is replaced by the church in God's economy are two different things.

We are going off topic. Catch you another time for this stuff 'a'?

For you to interpret otherwise demonstrates a lack of hermeneutic skill. Also consder the words of Charles Spurgeon, a master Christian theolgian and preacher.

Charles Spurgeon is a great preacher but he is not scripture. You have left scripture!

The parents must be obedient and the children too.

I asked in the last post what do we have to be obedient to? The law or what?

johnp.

[Orr v'emet]

2 Kings 14:6b in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."

If we are looking only at the OT law which you seem to put alot of focus on john, how might the above verses apply?

In my opinion, the law of Moses states that the fathers and the children make their own choices and accept the consequences from their individual decisions. Right? Each die for their own sin?

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE 

For you to interpret otherwise demonstrates a lack of hermeneutic skill. Also consder the words of Charles Spurgeon, a master Christian theolgian and preacher.

Charles Spurgeon is a great preacher but he is not scripture. You have left scripture!

No, I have not left Scripture. I am showing that there are better men than you and I, when it comes to understanding Scripture, and how they understand it. I can show you plenty of wise saints of God who understand the Scriptures and are skilled at interpretting it. Of course you rely on the old canard about not listening to a person, but God has given us teachers and people of great wisdom in the Body who he has annointed to reveal the truths of Scripture. I have made it a habit to not ignore such gifts from God, for the Scriptures are replete with admonitions concerning the wisdom that comes from learning from those more learned than us.

Again, you have not provided much of a Scriptural defense for saying that Children are saved by the decisions of their parents. What Scripture you have provided you have taken out of context, misquoted, applied to subject matter they were not addressing.

QUOTE 

The parents must be obedient and the children too.

I asked in the last post what do we have to be obedient to? The law or what?

EVERY man and woman, boy and girl must be obedient to the gospel. We much each make a decision for Christ. Your parents cannot save you. Anyone who thinks that they can save their children, or thinks that they are saved because of their parents have left the pale of Scripture and have ventured into dangerous terroritory. We will EACH stand before God and give an account. We are not accountable for our children's rejection or acceptance of the Gospel. Everyone has to make up their own mind about what to do with Yeshua; whether to accept him or reject Him. That is the heart of the Gospel. What will YOU do with Yeshua? When you stand before God, the question will not be what your parents said or did, but what YOU said, and what YOU did with the gospel.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 Kings 14:6b in accordance with what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses where the LORD commanded: "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sins."

If we are looking only at the OT law which you seem to put alot of focus on john, how might the above verses apply?

In my opinion, the law of Moses states that the fathers and the children make their own choices and accept the consequences from their individual decisions. Right? Each die for their own sin?

Good on ya, Kristin!