Infant baptism

[johnP]

Fr Chuck.

First all early Christians were Jews, or had to convert to Judism to beocme a Christian.

That is a very odd statement if you don't mind me saying so. To 'have to become a Jewish convert to become a Christian'. Do you mean the Christians who wanted to work the Jews in the temple. To work among the Jews circumcision aided them in the places they could go. They became like the Jew to save the Jew.

This was latter changed by the works and teachings of Paul with approval from Peter.

Could we have some scripture on this teaching please. It is new to me.

Baptism, phsically was the same act, but now it from for more than purification of the physical, but now for the soul also.

It is God that purifies not baptism; If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9.

stevehut.

If you got baptized without believing and repenting, would that be a valid baptism?

What validates a baptism? I think baptism should be understood first. I stand by what I said to begin with. Baptism is a bit of theatre with lots going on. God is watching us imitate the greatest act ever performed. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So any baptism reminds the demons of their destiny.

If not for infant baptisms, most churches wouldn't have any "growth" at all.

An awful practise. The CofE is guilty of this and say that it is good to get people into church. They have convinced the general population that all they need to do is turn up for their christening, their wedding and their funeral and they are hunky dory with His Nibs upstairs. Notice they are carried in at least twice.

johnp.

[johnP]

Hello Leonard. I hope you are feeling better.

As I asked before: In what way is our Covenant 'better' (as Paul said it IS), if our children cannot be included, but WERE included under the old covenant?

I answered that. Believer's children are automatically included into Christ as part of the promise of God. They receive the circumcision of the heart and become members of true Israel. No outward sign is needed. They are marked by the Holy Spirit. Baptism does not replace circumcision because circumcision is still here.

Eze 37:25 ...They and their children and their children's children will live there forever...

johnp.

[BobTriez]

Believer's children are automatically included into Christ as part of the promise of God. They receive the circumcision of the heart and become members of true Israel. No outward sign is needed. They are marked by the Holy Spirit. Baptism does not replace circumcision because circumcision is still here.

Eze 37:25 ...They and their children and their children's children will live there forever...

johnp.

Until what age ?

[johnP]

Until what age ?

No age limit Bob.

The promise was made to me and is not dependent on the kids.

johnp.

[Guest Called]

Until what age ?

No age limit Bob.

The promise was made to me and is not dependent on the kids.

johnp.

So do you mean that the children are automatically saved forever because of the parents?

[Kabowd]

Hello Leonard. I hope you are feeling better.

As I asked before: In what way is our Covenant 'better' (as Paul said it IS), if our children cannot be included, but WERE included under the old covenant?

I answered that. Believer's children are automatically included into Christ as part of the promise of God. They receive the circumcision of the heart and become members of true Israel. No outward sign is needed. They are marked by the Holy Spirit. Baptism does not replace circumcision because circumcision is still here.

Eze 37:25 ...They and their children and their children's children will live there forever...

johnp.

What? If that were the case there would be no need for the great commission. :suspect:

[ted]

Yup!

Doesn't quite line up with the NT, does it?

t.

[BobTriez]

Until what age ?

No age limit Bob.

The promise was made to me and is not dependent on the kids.

johnp.

So do you mean that the children are automatically saved forever because of the parents?

That's my question too John...please answer as straight forward as you can

[johnP]

Called.

Just finished it.

So do you mean that the children are automatically saved forever because of the parents?

More or less yes.

'Automatically included' is not really right. Each and every person saved is elected by God and known to Him in a special way.

I can think of scenarios where this falls down and one scriptural reference where the children of a Christian are damned but in the general scheme of things our kids are with us forever.

Beat them they will not die. Spare the rod and spoil the child is not a tyrant God telling us to thrash the brats but a command to restrain them. To bring them up like most of us do anyway. Any caring parent will want the best for them and most get it right. The result may not look good but if you bring them up to the best of your ability then they are safe.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth. Gen 6:9.

The promise is right there from the beginning for us to know that within certain very definable circumstances, that your children are safe. He wants you to know that.

PS 103:17 But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear him, and his righteousness with their children's children--

ZEC 10:9 Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return.

EZE 37:24 " `My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' "

The NT.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptised, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

The downside.

1SA 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel: "See, I am about to do something in Israel that will make the ears of everyone who hears of it tingle. 12 At that time I will carry out against Eli everything I spoke against his family--from beginning to end. 13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them. 14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

Eli is held responsible for the loss of his children because he did not bring them up right.

johnp.

[johnP]

Tess.

If that were the case there would be no need for the great commission.

Why not? As Christian parents we teach our children. That is discipling is it not?

There are more people in the world than our kids.

What you think?

johnp.