Strange Ideas From a Christian mind

[ted]

Slippery Slope,

What I said about your name was wrong. I ask for your forgiveness.

I have deleted that comment and will try to be more respectful when addressing not only you, but all here.

Thanks,

t.

[His son]

QUOTE

Deeds don't save.. they are a result of being saved.

That sentence is nonsequitor and is not written in the Bible.

Maybe you should read John's writtings. James also would be good for you to read. Your statement is not at all Biblical.

QUOTE

God wishes for ALL to be saved. Hell was not created for humans... but people do choose to go there- they choose to live this life apart from God so by choice, they live their next apart from God.

That statement says nothing about those who have never heard of Christianity or those who are too young to understand the concept of Christianity. They get enternal damnation for their ignorance.

If you would take time to read all of The Bible you wouldn't make such obvious mistakes. It is Written By God in His Bible that every knee will bow, and every tounge will confess that He is Lord. That means every living soul heard the gospel and knows who Christ is, and by God's pure justice we will all have the same opportunity to choose, or reject Him.

[Slippery Slope]

Shiloh357,

Actually the Bible does say that. Ephesians 2:8-10

Unfortunately you have taken that out of context. Ephesians is trying to convert nonchristians by telling them that the way they live now, for gratification of their sinful ways, makes their lives dead and that life is given through Christ not through the things they do. Ephesians is not telling Christians "Deeds don't save.. they are a result of being saved". Ephesians is saying that what they are doing now is not the good works the lord has prepared for them to do.

God is fair and just. Know will go to hell for any unjust reason. Nowhere in the Bible did a child to young to know the difference between good and evil, ever receive condemnation of God. God has never claimed that anyone incapable of understanding the gospel will receive the same fate as those who reject it.

Your inerrant bible seems pretty unclear, although depending on the arguement a Christian is trying to make you may be told that the only way to heaven is through Christ, period. Meaning ALL who do not know Christ may not find heaven. John14:6, I am the Way the Truth and the Life; no man comes to the Father but by me." It doesn't say "unless you've never heard of Jesus".

If I were you, I would not worry about those incapapble of knowing the truth and be more concerned by people like yourself who are capable of understanding,.. .

You are not me nor my judge nor my master and should not therefore tell me what I should or should not worry about.

...but dream up every excuse they can find not to believe

Thank you for showing us how you really feel about those who may be searching/questioning for the truth. Common Judeo-Christian self-righteous separatism; 'believe what I believe or your thoughts are invalid'.

You are correct James 2 is not talking about how to be saved. James 2 is talking about how faith without works is dead. It's pretty darn clear and contradicts every other 'faith alone' passage.

Peace

-ss

[Slippery Slope]

Slippery slope -

I know this is a free and open forum and all, but I do wonder why you would find either a need or an inspiration to come aboard a Christian message board just to tell us why you believe we are all wrong.

What is your motive, really?

I am not saying this to be rude, for I truly am perplexed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am here in the hopes of finding a reason to believe and while I'm searching and waiting to be filled by the Holy Spirit I figure I might as well do what I can to keep you honest, so that you don't just pull whatever suits your current desire out of the bible and quote it.

Peace

-SS

[Slippery Slope]

We are justified by faith, not works. As Christians, loving one another, displaying the Fruit of the Spirit, etc. is the evidence that we have been saved. Of course we all grow at different rates as a Christian and being human we all make mistake after mistake

[Slippery Slope]

Slippery Slope,

What I said about your name was wrong. I ask for your forgiveness.

I have deleted that comment and will try to be more respectful when addressing not only you, but all here.

Thanks,

t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Forgiven, I apologize for my acromony as well...

Peace

-SS

[Slippery Slope]

QUOTE

Deeds don't save.. they are a result of being saved.

That sentence is nonsequitor and is not written in the Bible.

Maybe you should read John's writtings. James also would be good for you to read. Your statement is not at all Biblical.

QUOTE

God wishes for ALL to be saved. Hell was not created for humans... but people do choose to go there- they choose to live this life apart from God so by choice, they live their next apart from God.

That statement says nothing about those who have never heard of Christianity or those who are too young to understand the concept of Christianity. They get enternal damnation for their ignorance.

If you would take time to read all of The Bible you wouldn't make such obvious mistakes. It is Written By God in His Bible that every knee will bow, and every tounge will confess that He is Lord. That means every living soul heard the gospel and knows who Christ is, and by God's pure justice we will all have the same opportunity to choose, or reject Him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everything in your message is discussed in my previous replies in this thread. As I stated earlier, I have read the bible.

Peace

-SS

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Actually the Bible does say that. Ephesians 2:8-10

Unfortunately you have taken that out of context. Ephesians is trying to convert nonchristians by telling them that the way they live now, for gratification of their sinful ways, makes their lives dead and that life is given through Christ not through the things they do. Ephesians is not telling Christians "Deeds don't save.. they are a result of being saved". Ephesians is saying that what they are doing now is not the good works the lord has prepared for them to do.

LOL, No, Eph. 2:8-10 is speaking to Christians. It is written to the Ephesian church, that means they are believers not unbelievers. Ephesians 2:8-10 is telling Christians how they got saved. They did not get saved by works but by faith alone. He is telling Christians that they are saved for good works, not by good works.

QUOTE

God is fair and just. Know will go to hell for any unjust reason. Nowhere in the Bible did a child to young to know the difference between good and evil, ever receive condemnation of God. God has never claimed that anyone incapable of understanding the gospel will receive the same fate as those who reject it.

Your inerrant bible seems pretty unclear, although depending on the arguement a Christian is trying to make you may be told that the only way to heaven is through Christ, period. Meaning ALL who do not know Christ may not find heaven. John14:6, I am the Way the Truth and the Life; no man comes to the Father but by me." It doesn't say "unless you've never heard of Jesus".

That is why every person will get the opportunity to accept Him or reject Him. No one will be left out. God is in control of it all, and everyone will get an opportunity.

QUOTE

If I were you, I would not worry about those incapapble of knowing the truth and be more concerned by people like yourself who are capable of understanding,.. .

You are not me nor my judge nor my master and should not therefore tell me what I should or should not worry about.

I am not trying to be your judge. I am simply saying that using those who have never heard or are incapable of mentally understanding the truth, is no excuse for you, seeing that you ARE capable understanding, and because God will not leave anyone out any way. You will not be able to accuse Him of any injustice when THOSE people enter the Kingdom, and your stubborn unbelief renders you unqualified to enter, when you stand before God.

You are correct James 2 is not talking about how to be saved. James 2 is talking about how faith without works is dead. It's pretty darn clear and contradicts every other 'faith alone' passage.

No it does not contradict the "faith alone" message. The "faith alone" message applies to how we stand before God. James is not talking about that. He is talking about how we stand before men. Since James is not talking about salvation, there is no contradiction. James is talking about works justifying us before men. Paul says that we are justified by faith alone before God.

Most people who claim that the Bible contradicts itself, have never really studied it. This weak and beggardly attempt of yours to force a contradiction where none exists, is pretty typical of the "contradiction" camp. It shows that they really don't read the Bible to see if it is true. They have already decided it is untrue and are trying to impose their preconceived ideas onto the text.

QUOTE

...but dream up every excuse they can find not to believe

Thank you for showing us how you really feel about those who may be searching/questioning for the truth. Common Judeo-Christian self-righteous separatism; 'believe what I believe or your thoughts are invalid'.

No, you do not posture yourself as one who is here to search. You jump on here and get all adversarial, and try to throw our faith in our faces. Then you get upset if defend the truth. If you were searching for the truth, then you would give us the benefit of the doubt and treat our beliefs as if they had some merit.

You cannot jump on here and denigrate the Bible and then run behind "I'm just searching for the truth" to avoid being challenged. That is a common smoke screen I have seen being used by many who jump on this board whose real intention is pick a fight. Perhaps you are different... we'll see.

[nebula]

Slippery slope -

I know this is a free and open forum and all, but I do wonder why you would find either a need or an inspiration to come aboard a Christian message board just to tell us why you believe we are all wrong.

What is your motive, really?

I am not saying this to be rude, for I truly am perplexed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am here in the hopes of finding a reason to believe and while I'm searching and waiting to be filled by the Holy Spirit I figure I might as well do what I can to keep you honest, so that you don't just pull whatever suits your current desire out of the bible and quote it.

Peace

-SS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK!

So, what is holding you back from believing in Jesus?

BTW, I just had a nagging to respond to this:

Ephesians is trying to convert nonchristians by telling them that the way they live now, for gratification of their sinful ways, makes their lives dead and that life is given through Christ not through the things they do. Ephesians is not telling Christians "Deeds don't save.. they are a result of being saved". Ephesians is saying that what they are doing now is not the good works the lord has prepared for them to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was wondering, where did you get this from?

Let me show you the into to Ephesians -

Ephesians 1:1-2 -

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians is a letter written by the Apostle Paul to the saints (Christians, the Church) in Ephesus.

So, look again at Ephesians 2:8-10.

8For it is by grace you have been saved [note: past tense], through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Now compare with this:

John 6

28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

[Slippery Slope]

Shiloh357 and Nebula:

You are both correct about my mistake with Ephesians. It's been so long since I read the bible cover to cover that I confused on the who and what on that.

The point however is that James 2 clearly says that without good works faith is dead. That says (to me at least) that your faith is worthless without good works. Thereby you can not get to heaven without BOTH faith and good works.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it [salvation] is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast.

You are saved by gods grace, through faith. Paul says nothing about being justified by faith before god.

That is why every person will get the opportunity to accept Him or reject Him. No one will be left out. God is in control of it all, and everyone will get an opportunity.

is this your feeling or is there scripture that says this? I don't recall any scripture that says the way to heaven is through Jesus unless you have no knowledge of Christ.

Most people who claim that the Bible contradicts itself, have never really studied it. This weak and beggardly attempt of yours to force a contradiction where none exists, is pretty typical of the "contradiction" camp. It shows that they really don't read the Bible to see if it is true. They have already decided it is untrue and are trying to impose their preconceived ideas onto the text.

I am not of the "contradiction camp". You must do everything in your power to refute any contradiction because your faith hinges on the inerrancy of the bible. I am not out to prove to you contradictions in the bible, I only noted that some people were using a particular passage to tell someone they are wrong.