The Deception of Many

[mizzdy]

What has religion forgotten? link\

[Guest]

Amen~!

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Repent~!

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. John 15:3-4

And Dwell In Him

[rich08]

Interesting. I agree with the concept that are are many false teachers and plenty of false Christians in false churches.

The video appeals to Scripture repeatedly throughout, which I would normally applaud. It is with great irony that when launching a video about false teachers they seem to have done that themselves.

I've read through Matthew 24:5 a few times (and checked the surrounding context too). It says (I shall use the version quoted in the video) 'For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.' The narrator questions the word 'many'. The narrator argues that if you look at all the people who have claimed to be Christ there aren't actually that many, so what does many mean? Ok - thinking through the verse and trying to interpret it - thus far so good: I always encourage people to ask what the Bible text says.

But then (if I have understood the logic correctly) he changes the verse from those who come in Christ's name and say 'I am Christ' to those who claim to come in the name of Christ and present his teaching (albeit that that may be wrong). To me the verse is quite clear - it specifically says 'saying, I am Christ.' If the narrator wants to put us on guard and make a point about false teachers why use a verse that need to be adapted to fit his arguments? There are plenty of other verses that would equally serve that purpose (for example Matt 7:15).

I think the video (when watched in full) does raise some valid points and some tough questions especially in relation to several aspects of what it means to be church (at times I applauded it). But I feel that the arguments are weak and can easily be countered for example the outcome of the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) or the Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

Always happy to see what others have to say.

[rich08]

What is the translation for "Christ?" Christ = anointed. Many have and do claim to be anointed/Christ....throughout history in fact. Just throwing that out there.

I watched the video back to see if that's what they might be saying; it just says 'teaching in the name of Christ' rather than claiming to me the physical messiah or being anointed by the Messiah/Christ.

I did have a quick look at a Greek NT to see what it says (not that I am a Greek scholar) - the word Christ has the definite article in front - i.e. 'The Christ'. The chapter as a whole appears to make a distinction between false Messiahs and false prophets and is set in the context of the return of the Son of Man (i.e. the real Christ).

Not sure if that helps or not.

[OneLight]

There are two ways of taking "saying, I am Christ". The first, and most widely accepted, is if someone tells you that he/she is Jesus Christ. The second, which is not so widely though upon, is someone saying that Jesus is Christ, meaning that it was Christ who spoke "I", referring back to the speaker/author.

I personally see this as both.

[rich08]

The second, which is not so widely though upon, is someone saying that Jesus is Christ, meaning that it was Christ who spoke "I", referring back to the speaker/author.

Sorry OneLight - you've lost me with this bit - could you try explaining that again?

[OneLight]

The second, which is not so widely though upon, is someone saying that Jesus is Christ, meaning that it was Christ who spoke "I", referring back to the speaker/author.

Sorry OneLight - you've lost me with this bit - could you try explaining that again?

Sure, I will try. Jesus was the one speaking when He said "I am Christ". He could of meant that He was speaking of Himself, meaning "Jesus is Christ". It would be like me saying "I am a climber". I could say, but awkwardly, "Alan is a climber", speaking of myself in the the third person.

In other words, the "I" was reflecting on Himself, Jesus. Therefor, many will come saying "Jesus is Christ" instead of just quoting scripture of "I am Christ" said Jesus.

[gdemoss]

This is the pot calling the kettle black.

1Ti 1:5-11 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and [of] a good conscience, and [of] faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law [is] good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

There is a proper use of the law and it isn't for bringing everyone in the world unto it to follow it. To do so is to put yourself in the category above with those who are without understanding. There are two contrasting elements in the above scriptures one is the end of the commandment and the other is the law. The law made nothing righteous and never will no matter how precisely you follow it. The Holy Spirit of the Living God sanctifying people in the word of truth unto charity out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and faith unfeigned is what makes a man righteous. A person needs both imputed and imparted righteousness 2 Thes 2:13.

This said, the Old Testament scriptures are invaluable when it comes to teaching about sanctification and holiness unto the Lord our God. God used so many things to teach the principles of holiness and sanctification unto Israel that are very relevant for today's believers who want to understand who God is and what his desire is for his people. But Israel stumbled at the law and thought they would be righteous if they both kept and enforced the law. Paul, who claimed to be blameless according to the righteousness that was in the law, through the law both imprisoned and killed followers of Christ. If anyone knows about using the law in an unrighteous manner it is he.

What I see in the debates about the law are those who are believers yet carnal and not understanding spiritual things do that which was happening to the Galatians and sought to go back to the law not understanding true righteousness that can only be had through the Spirit of the Living God indwelling the Temple of the believers body. Those who are self-seeking for righteousness before God rather than submissively seeking to let God live through them instead as they present their bodies as a living sacrifice unto him that he might use it to reconcile the world unto himself.

Do I need to abstain from eating pork because it was said to be unclean in the law of Moses? Absolutely not. If one doesn't understand the teachings behind the ban on eating the flesh of pigs outside of the literal abstinence from the animal as food then they have a lot more to worry about than trying to keep the dietary laws, for it is written:Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

Of course we must remember to accept those who are week in the faith and not unto doubtful disputations. And I am one who comes In Jesus Name as the video spoke of though I am not of any denomination, the question is am I just another one of the many who come in it and deceive? You must be the judge of that because if it is true I cannot know.

Gary

[OneLight]

One could say I am messiah, or I am christ. That just means your anointed of God with Power of the Holy Spirit.

It would incorrect to capitalize Christ.

Many were considered Messiah in the OT

It would be better to say I am chriō, or anointed, than to use christ. Chrio was always used instead of a person being christ.

Christ was used for His anointing and for us. Jesus the anointed one and his anointing ..... Christ.

I can do all things through (His anointing)

I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of (His anointing) Christ may rest upon me.

Matthew 24:24

For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

[rich08]

One could say I am messiah, or I am christ. That just means your anointed of God with Power of the Holy Spirit.

It would incorrect to capitalize Christ.

Many were considered Messiah in the OT

It would be better to say I am chriō, or anointed, than to use christ. Chrio was always used instead of a person being christ.

Christ was used for His anointing and for us. Jesus the anointed one and his anointing ..... Christ.

I can do all things through (His anointing)

I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of (His anointing) Christ may rest upon me.

I am not sure I can agree with your argument here. I looked up the Greek word 'Christos' in A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature by Frederick Danker (based on the original version by Walter Bauer and others)

Two meanings are given to the word (which I quote below)

1. Fulfiller of Israelite expectations of a deliver, the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ
   
2. The personal name ascribed to Jesus, Christ
   

For each meaning numerous examples are given of how the word is used in these ways, predominately from the New Testament, but also from Septuagint (the Greek Translation of the Old Testament) and from contemporary literature.

The Lexicon lists the uses of Christos in Matthew as belonging to the former (definition 1). As I have already said the Greek NT uses the definite article 'the' before the word Christos, so I think it entirely appropriate to capitalise the word 'Christ.'