WN: Southern Baptists: Gay rights aren't civil rights - MSNBC

[OneLight]

Romans 1:18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How do you see these verses, Winnetou? Do you understand that having an idol can also be in one's heart and not have to be a statue? Do you also understand that God created man and woman to be husband and wife to create families? TO choose this lifestyle is just that, a choice. I have asked you two questions so far in another thread and you ignore them.

I, having an addictive personality, made a choice not to use drugs, though it is against my "natural" being. The choice I made was because it was going against God for me to be wasted all the time, not fulfilling my responsibilities. I could not of done this alone, I needed Gods help, and He did help me.

So I ask you again, Do you believe that God can make things right for them so they will not desire to be what He did not make them, or to stop their self-harm behavior?

[Guest yod]

I don't hate any homosexuals, and I have had several friends who were in my life.

But their lifestyle is going to send them to an early grave so the best thing we can do is hold up a standard, not only for us but for them.

It made me angry when my parents didn't let me do everything I wanted to do, but they didn't do it out of hate. Allowing this destructive lifestyle the appearance of legitimacy will destroy the lives of so many children. And then the envelope will only be pushed further because they are never satisfied....which is the definition of lust.

.

[GojuBrian]

nevermind that science is showing that the gay lifestyle is aslo the riskiest sexually. most aids carriers are gay and bi ,males and also they lead the highest rate of stds. make sense in that light to encourage that doesnt it?

Yep. You can never give blood is you had a single homosexual encounter since 1977 or if you are a female that had sex with a male that at one point had sex with another male......, but this administration wants to promote it....??

[winsomebulldog]

Mixed race marriages were never banned by the bible, racists and bigots abused scripture to support their prejudices.

They were forbidden in the old testament. Both the real sexual intercourse and marriages. It was all about that a fear prevailed, Jews could accept the faith of their non-Jewish partners.

Sorry to just jump in here, but mixed-race marriages were NOT forbidden in the Old Testament. Marriages between peoples of differing FAITHS was prohibited. And yes, it was because God did not want His people led astray into other belief systems. Even the New Testament carries this theme forward and instructs us not to be "unequally yoked." In the most basic terms, we are warned that marriage with someone who does not share our beliefs and faith will cause us a whole heap of grief. And judging from what I've personally seen of those who tried it, the Bible was compeletely right. But then it always is, isn't it. (Not a question.)

[Stan53]

Not surprising at all that the Southern Baptist convention would come out against gay rights not being equivalent to civil rights. They said the same thing about black rights as close as 1960.

As civil rights apply to ALL Americans, gays should be accorded the same rights as any straight person. This is CIVIL rights, NOT Christian rights. The U.S. is a democracy, NOT a theocracy.

We need to follow Jesus' example and stay OUT of politics.

[Stan53]

Not surprising at all that the Southern Baptist convention would come out against gay rights not being equivalent to civil rights. They said the same thing about black rights as close as 1960.

As civil rights apply to ALL Americans, gays should be accorded the same rights as any straight person. This is CIVIL rights, NOT Christian rights. The U.S. is a democracy, NOT a theocracy.

We need to follow Jesus' example and stay OUT of politics.

We need to follow Paul's example and take advantage of our citizenship rights to make a positive difference. Everyone already has the same rights. Any man can marry any woman, provided they are of age, and consent. Homosexuals want new rights to marry people of the same sex. That is not marriage. It is no differen't than if someone wants to expand marriage to include animals, objects, or anything? I heard somewhere that they had created a robot woman that acts nearly human. Someone could demand to be able to marry it. I am opposed to any of these expansions of the definition of marriage.

BTW, if it were up to me, I would repeal the Civil Rights Act. It goes too far in requiring private businesses to hire people they don't want to. It is one thing to require the government agencies to avoid descrimination, but if you use your own money to start a business, and you happen to be an ignorant bigot, so be it. In a free country, you should be able to decide who to serve or hire. That will allow for someone else to open up a business who desires to serve everyone and hire the best people. The free market will decide who succeeds and who fails?

Obviously not everyone has the same CIVIL rights. Were you alive when Black and white couples could not get married? Rights are determined by societal laws, NOT the Bible. The ONLY right we have in the Bible is to obey God. FYI, the current marriage laws we instituted by govenrment NOT the church. If you read the histroy about it you will find the church was pretty outraged when marriage laws came into effect. Now it's all incorporated into the church marriage ceremony, it is seamless. Ask you Pastor what goes on after the marriage. What his office is required to do. God showed in Gen 2:24 what we used to be able to do when taking a wife.

Well I guess it's a good thing it's NOT up to you. Jesus addressed this attitude of being free to do what we want in John 8. I suggest you read it carefully. We aren't governed by free market, we are governed by God and His Word.

[Stan53]

BTW, the most people with Aids are young babies being born in central Africa and Haiti, from mothers that were either raped or had husbands that were very promiscuous. This did NOT come from a homosexual lifestyle.

[OldShep]

BTW, the most people with Aids are young babies being born in central Africa and Haiti, from mothers that were either raped or had husbands that were very promiscuous. This did NOT come from a homosexual lifestyle.

Sir, I do believe that promiscuous actives is not limited to just male subjects. By the way, AIDS was first recognized in 1981, it has led to nearly 30 million deaths. It did not come from homosexual lifestyles but it did come from cross-species transmissions. If you doubt my words, pay a visit to CDC...or read the report: Origins of HIV and the AIDS Pandemic.

I doubt if the reader would go out of their way to look up the report so here is short cut to part of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....?tool=pmcentrez

Any kind of sexual behavior is fornication, God doesn't make a distinction.

Sex was meant to be between a husband and a wife, that is a man and a women, it is sexual misbehavior which is a sin. I do not support homosexual lifestyles.... and I vote NO. Can I stop people from sinning no, but, I can stand up for the vaules I beleive in. If the law allows to men to marry then so be it, however, I would not partake in the event, or aprove of my church leaders marring those in our church.

JMHO~~~~Dennis.....

[Stan53]

Not surprising at all that the Southern Baptist convention would come out against gay rights not being equivalent to civil rights. They said the same thing about black rights as close as 1960.

As civil rights apply to ALL Americans, gays should be accorded the same rights as any straight person. This is CIVIL rights, NOT Christian rights. The U.S. is a democracy, NOT a theocracy.

We need to follow Jesus' example and stay OUT of politics.

We need to follow Paul's example and take advantage of our citizenship rights to make a positive difference. Everyone already has the same rights. Any man can marry any woman, provided they are of age, and consent. Homosexuals want new rights to marry people of the same sex. That is not marriage. It is no differen't than if someone wants to expand marriage to include animals, objects, or anything? I heard somewhere that they had created a robot woman that acts nearly human. Someone could demand to be able to marry it. I am opposed to any of these expansions of the definition of marriage.

BTW, if it were up to me, I would repeal the Civil Rights Act. It goes too far in requiring private businesses to hire people they don't want to. It is one thing to require the government agencies to avoid descrimination, but if you use your own money to start a business, and you happen to be an ignorant bigot, so be it. In a free country, you should be able to decide who to serve or hire. That will allow for someone else to open up a business who desires to serve everyone and hire the best people. The free market will decide who succeeds and who fails?

Obviously not everyone has the same CIVIL rights. Were you alive when Black and white couples could not get married? Rights are determined by societal laws, NOT the Bible. The ONLY right we have in the Bible is to obey God. FYI, the current marriage laws we instituted by govenrment NOT the church. If you read the histroy about it you will find the church was pretty outraged when marriage laws came into effect. Now it's all incorporated into the church marriage ceremony, it is seamless. Ask you Pastor what goes on after the marriage. What his office is required to do. God showed in Gen 2:24 what we used to be able to do when taking a wife.

Well I guess it's a good thing it's NOT up to you. Jesus addressed this attitude of being free to do what we want in John 8. I suggest you read it carefully. We aren't governed by free market, we are governed by God and His Word.

I actually agree with part of what you said. I don't need the government to sanction my marriage. There was a time when I thought I did, but having looked into the matter more carefully, I have come to the conclusion that the church would be better off to have a church ceremony, and their own certificate of marriage, and keep the government out of it. I really don't feel the need to have the blessings of any government that would unite two homosexuals in marriage. When it comes down to it, the homos don't need anyone to sanction what they do. They only desire gay marriage for the benefits.

By the way, FYI, I have read the NT more than 20 times over, and I am very much aware of what it says. You need to go back and look carefully at how the Apostle Paul used his Roman citizenship whenever necessary. The fact of the matter is, Jesus neither forbad us to be involved in government, or discouraged it. In addition to that, the entire NT and the Bible is really the words of Christ. John 1:1 tells us that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, speaking of Jesus. Even the words that are not in red letters are inspired by Jesus. You are going to have to do a lot better than that.

I never mentioned anything about a free market in reference to the Bible, so I have no idea what that is about? We were disgussing the rights of reprobates. That would be homosexuals, in case you missed that in Romans chapter one.

That is good that you have read the NT 20 times. What I said was read John 8, CAREFULLY. Study it. Yes Jesus is the Word, and that is why He said, "I am the bread of life." Yes you are correct, God did inspire the Bible so we should be careful to read it carefully

and with great attention, allowing God to fill our mind with what He wants to tell us, and not read it with our thoughts already made up, looking for something to confirm our personal beliefs. Doing the former is called exegesis, doing the latter is called eisegesis.

The fact is at this state in our society, we ALL need the government to sanction our marriages. Each church pretty much does have their own ceremony and certificate. The compliance with government regulations is done in the church's back end administration.

I'm not sure what benefits you are referring to. Common law marriage has ALL the benefits of civil marriage in my country. Does it not in your country?

In post 32, you said "The free market will decide who succeeds and who fails?" So yes you did mention it, even if it was out of context. You also supported bigotry in that post. The fact that the govenrment wants to have equal opportunity employment and no discrimination should make Christians stand up and applause. It is a sad indictament of the Christian community in the U.S., that so many people rail against this and rebel against their own government. Just because we have the so-called right to free speech doesn't mean we should use it. As far as God and the Bible is concerned, ALL unbelievers are reprobate."It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

[Stan53]

BTW, the most people with Aids are young babies being born in central Africa and Haiti, from mothers that were either raped or had husbands that were very promiscuous. This did NOT come from a homosexual lifestyle.

Most of the AIDS in this country does come from sodomites. What you said neither proves nor disproves where AIDS began. Even so, if it started with queers or heterosexuals, either way, it is spread through various forms of fornication. God told us in his Word that sex is to be confined to marriage, and that is a union between a man and a woman, not two sodomites. If everyone followed God's pattern, we wouldn't have the spread of AIDS.

We wouldn't have a lot of things if we obeyed God. Like prejudice, homophobia, self-righeousness, condemnation, etc...

Using your logic, I guess your country shouldn't allow common law marriages?