Is Hell the end?

[mike2]

Just got this quote off the internet but I believe it reflects the thoughts of a lot of people. It would seem that as the verses are quoted that ALL SOULS will be tormented forever and ever

Revelation 20:10, John describes those in the “lake of fire” being "tormented day and night forever and ever." The expression day and night is used in Revelation to express the concept of “forever.” The lake of fire is described in Revelation 19:20 as a place that "burns with brimstone." In the saddest verse in the Bible, John declares that anyone whose name is not written in the book of life is "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15).

The first part of this verse is so often not mentioned ( as in this quote) and I believe it is crucial to the full understanding of the passage especially when you go back to 20:8. I'm wondering what you think of this when considering the mention of death later in Rev 20:14

Food for thought;

In verse 10...who is tormented forever?

In verse 14... who or what dies the second death?

Is it possible that the term "forever" means final, never to be changed... eg. we are dead in our sins but can be born again through Christ, presently the unsaved can be changed, are not dead "forever".

If the unsaved who are physically alive, are already considered to be dead (let the dead bury their own dead Mat 8:22), whats the second death in Rev 20:14?

mike2

[Bold Believer]

Just got this quote off the internet but I believe it reflects the thoughts of a lot of people. It would seem that as the verses are quoted that ALL SOULS will be tormented forever and ever

Revelation 20:10, John describes those in the “lake of fire” being "tormented day and night forever and ever." The expression day and night is used in Revelation to express the concept of “forever.” The lake of fire is described in Revelation 19:20 as a place that "burns with brimstone." In the saddest verse in the Bible, John declares that anyone whose name is not written in the book of life is "thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15).

The first part of this verse is so often not mentioned ( as in this quote) and I believe it is crucial to the full understanding of the passage especially when you go back to 20:8. I'm wondering what you think of this when considering the mention of death later in Rev 20:14

Food for thought;

In verse 10...who is tormented forever?

In verse 14... who or what dies the second death?

Is it possible that the term "forever" means final, never to be changed... eg. we are dead in our sins but can be born again through Christ, presently the unsaved can be changed, are not dead "forever".

If the unsaved who are physically alive, are already considered to be dead (let the dead bury their own dead Mat 8:22), whats the second death in Rev 20:14?

Mike2

How about especially when you go back to Rev 20:4?

"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [i saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received [his] mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Just who are these people? The martyrs of the Neronian persecution is a good choice, given the context. At one point I did believe that these were all saved believers, but that doesn't fit the bill. It is the martyrs of that time who said "Jesus is Lord" rather than "Caesar is Lord." They refused to worship the Emperor as god, as so were beheaded. John calls the resurrection of the martyrs 'the first resurrection.' (v5) None of the other dead (apparently saved OR unsaved) can be resurrected until the end of the thousand years. The martyrs of that period have received a special honor: to reign with Jesus during his thousand years' reign. By dying for Christ during the War of the Little Horn, they earned that honor. (Not salvation, but the honor of co-regency) These martyrs are spoken of elsewhere in Revelation (6:10) as being under the throne and asking God how long it would be before he avenged their blood upon those who live upon the land, and Jesus also mentions them in Matthew 23 when he castigates the Jewish leaders and tells them that all the blood of the righteous from Abel to Zechariah would be avenged upon them.

None of any other believers or unbelievers will be brought back to life (anazoe) until the end of the thousand years. Will those believers who die later on lie in the ground (soul-sleep)? I don't think so, given other Scriptures, but they don't yet receive a new body either. The martyrs have received anastasia, the right to stand before God. Their bodies are already in the form that Jesus had after His resurrection.

Satan had been bound from deceiving the nations during the thousand years (to allow the word of the Lord to go forth to the world), but that time has ended. The nations are rejecting Christ. Satan is loose (Gog) and gathering Magog, a vast army of godless people from all over the earth. They hate God, they hate Christ, they hate religion in general and they are in governments worldwide and in the UN. They want to establish man as god, they believe in their hearts that they are gods. They're surrounding the Church bit by bit, little by little. Persecution is increasing again. Even in the US.

God's answer to that is fire from heaven. I believe that is the Last Day. At that point, the Church is raptured/resurrected to be with Christ as he returns to judge the wicked in the valley of Hinnom.

Then the books get opened and the dead are judged by their..........................................WORKS.

Death and Hell and anyone not found in the Book of Life goes into the Lake of Fire, which is the second Death. The first death affects only the body, the second encompasses the entire being. And yes: IT IS FOREVER. There is no getting out of there.

Is 66:24 states:

"And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

[JTC]

Hey Mike,

I think hell is the end because I don't think anyone goes to hell until we reach the end of the age of mankind on Earth. But I also don't think hell was created for man, it was created for satan and his angels.

I also don't believe any of us would be alive and tormented forever. I suppose this will raise more questions, but to believe that man will be tormented forever, would mean that man is created with an immortal soul. I don't believe that. I don't believe we are born or created with eternal life within us. We can only get eternal life from God, through Jesus, and it seems illogical to think God will give eternal life to a soul He's putting in hell.

I admit all this is very confusing and I don't have the answers. All I have is peace about these questions and I wanted to try and give you some of it. But I'm not sure I have. So I say remember that most of Revelation is symbolic, and look for answers to questions in Revelation outside of Revelation. That was what I did.

John

[nebula]

Before discussing such concepts, it would be a good idea to clarify terms.

When you say, "Hell," do you mean "Gehenna," "Hades" or "the Lake of Fire"?

[coheir]

mike2

(let the dead bury their own dead Mat 8:2 )

When i read this I thought it could have been written this way

Let the live unbelievers bury the unbelievers who have died.

[bornagain2011]

How do you KNOW if your name is in the book? What if you really feel like you have received the Holy Spirit and beleive in Jesus, but you have so much sin from the past? I wish there was a way to just know that your name is in the book. That freaks me out all the time. I know the Spirit has changed me on the inside and cleaned house, but how can you REALLY know? I really don't want to go to hell forever and ever.

I believe our souls are imortal, when we were conceived God breathed souls into us that don't die.

[OldShep]

How do you KNOW if your name is in the book? What if you really feel like you have received the Holy Spirit and beleive in Jesus, but you have so much sin from the past? I wish there was a way to just know that your name is in the book. That freaks me out all the time. I know the Spirit has changed me on the inside and cleaned house, but how can you REALLY know? I really don't want to go to hell forever and ever.

I believe our souls are imortal, when we were conceived God breathed souls into us that don't die.

How do you know, by Faith, not in your self but in Jesus Christ. Beleive and receive.

Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,

Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Eph 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Eph 2:7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The doubt we all have at times, is satan lieing to us, telling us we are not worth it, he is right we are not worth it, but..God loves us and saved those that believe in Jesus. Also remember this, failure is an event, not a person...

ICL~~~Dennis

[bornagain2011]

How do you KNOW if your name is in the book? What if you really feel like you have received the Holy Spirit and beleive in Jesus, but you have so much sin from the past? I wish there was a way to just know that your name is in the book. That freaks me out all the time. I know the Spirit has changed me on the inside and cleaned house, but how can you REALLY know? I really don't want to go to hell forever and ever.

I believe our souls are imortal, when we were conceived God breathed souls into us that don't die.

How do you know, by Faith, not in your self but in Jesus Christ. Beleive and receive.

Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,

Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Eph 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Eph 2:7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

The doubt we all have at times, is satan lieing to us, telling us we are not worth it, he is right we are not worth it, but..God loves us and saved those that believe in Jesus. Also remember this, failure is an event, not a person...

ICL~~~Dennis

Thank you , I needed to hear that!

[xero]

Hell gets cast into the lake of fire so no it isnt the end:

Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

The soul isnt immortal its like a seed which is quickened by the spirit:

1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

See ^ first man Adam living soul last Adam a quickening spirit, the first earthy the last heavenly, weve borne the earthy and will bear the heavenly. Soul not immortal i.e. temporal, Spirit immortal i.e. eternal.