Immortality of the Soul?

[Guest philws]

Eccl 12:6-7

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

(KJV)

Rev 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

(KJV)

[borntorebel]

LT says,

5590 - psuche from 5594 is the word translated "soul"

4151 - pneuma form 4154 is the word translated spirit.

I see two distinct words having differing meanings to describe different things.  If they are used interchangably then why is there a distinction made in these verses: 1Th 5:23

[Guest philws]

what is your point ? Solomon and John pretty well some it up via The Holy Spirit (ghost is a very 16th-17th century term).

i read Hebrew and it is consistant that we do not sleep in a hole in the ground... ashes to ashes dust to dust.... how many angels can dance on the head of a pin ?

2 Tim 2:15-16

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

(KJV)

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

A note about "hell" tanslated from Hebrew Sheol.

With the patato's thing, another popular use of hell as the grave/covering is in the root of the word "helmet" which is litteraly a "hell-met" which is acovering for the head. Hell is literaly a "covered place"

[Guest philws]

Annihilation or Eternal Torment ?

Psalm 37:

18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.

19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.

20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

(KJV)

Psalm 37:

18 The LORD knoweth the days of them that are wholehearted; and their inheritance shall be for ever. 19 They shall not be ashamed in the time of evil; and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied. 20 For the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs--they shall pass away in smoke, they shall pass away.(JPS)

Ezekiel 28:12-19

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

(KJV)

Biblically illiterate Arminians have called me Calvinist and equally illiterate Calvinists call me a follower of Armen.... i regard this "fundamental" (lol) arguement as specious from both very human points of view.... after all, who are we to limit our Father to our temporal fleshly frames of reference (check out the works of Sir Arthur Eddington)?

Because the so-called Christadelphians agree(?) with my take on "eternal" torment (imho not so); does that make me a cultist ? i respect doctrinal disagreement only if the underlying mss are themselves linguistically unclear.... Like is our Father's transliterated Name Yahveh or Yahweh ? i have heard some good arguements in both cases and as nobody had a tape recorder at the time the point is moot though i use "Yahveh" as my favorite teacher taught that spelling.

back to "eternal" punishment.... When someone refers to "eternity" spent in outer darkness with Gnashing of teeth i look to the Greek concepts of ages and eons. the subject (Rev.14:11) is the "smoke of their" torment ascending for ever and ever.... smoke... tiny particles of ash , entropy... which is dispersed (dissociated, scattered) and adds only to the background "white noise"

of our Father's universe.

This "second law of thermodynamics" is what blows out the evilutionary "primordial soup story". they claim order from disorder... impossible without The Intelligent Creator.... St. John's Gospel Chapter One how beautiful... sublime.... i do not wonder that it was he, this "beloved disciple", who was vouched the Book of Revelation for us. Hows about 3:16 ? Remember fellow Hebrew students.... The earth was NOT created t'hoo v b'hoo:

Isaiah 45:18

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)

Do i believe the Trinity ? of course! can i give the Godhead a rigourous definition ?

no way jose` ! and "i pity the mortal who thinks he can.

1Cor13:

12LITV: For now we see through a mirror in dimness, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will fully know even as I also was fully known.

_______

12Murdock: And now we see, as by a mirror, in similitude; but then face to face: now I know partially; but then shall I know, just as I am known.

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy might, mind and soul"

Agape

Edited November 10, 2004 by philws

[nebula]

back to "eternal" punishment.... When someone refers to "eternity" spent in outer darkness with Gnashing of teeth i look to the Greek concepts of ages and eons. the subject (Rev.14:11) is the "smoke of their" torment ascending for ever and ever.... smoke... tiny particles of ash , entropy... which is dispersed (dissociated, scattered) and adds only to the background "white noise"

of our Father's universe.

Well, that's a new one!

[Guest philws]

see what happens when you study God's Word ? either the Creator created or He didn't.... i know He did and i respect His laws of nature standing in awe of His handiwork.

The spacious firmament on high,

With all the blue ethereal sky,

And spangled heavens, a shining frame

Their great Original proclaim.

Th

[His son]

The immortality of the soul, is a fact established by God, and it is spelled out for everyone of us in our own native language so that there can be no mistake about it on the part of anyone regardless of who they are or where they come from. What God has written in His Book The Bible, will never be changed by mans puny attempts to change it to assuage his fear of eternal hell. The only reason this happens is because (bottom line) man doesn't want to give up his pet sins, so he creates all kinds of doctrines to justify himself. But The Bible (God's Word) tells us that regardless of how hard we try to justify, He will not accept anyone into that wedding supper with a spot or wrinkle in their garments. He has presented us with two choices, eternity with satan in hell, or eternity with Him in Heaven. Black or white. He has given us all the information we need to make an intelligent assessment. Christ came, took our death penalty of the flesh to the cross, and returned to us the freewill to choose who we will serve, and prior to the cross He came as a man, and suffered every temptation every one of us ever will, and resisted an even greater temptation than we will ever face even to the shedding of blood to show us we can. He not only lived it in fromt of many witnesses but he tells us more than once in His Bible that all things He did we can do, and that includes cleaning up our lives and becoming one of the virgins who will enter in.

[borntorebel]

His Son says,

The immortality of the soul, is a fact established by God, and it is spelled out for everyone of us in our own native language so that there can be no mistake about it on the part of anyone regardless of who they are or where they come from.

So, where does it say in the bible that we NOW have immortality? What about 1 Tim. 6:15-16, "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach." So we see here in scripture, that God says He (and we can also say Jesus Christ) is only immortal. Now, unless you have created another definition for "only", then noone is immortal except for God and Jesus. Now we will put on immortality, but that won't be until the end of this age; "In a moment, in the twinklong of an eye, at the last trump..." 1 Cor. 15:52. So we see here that God tells us in His word that at the last trump the dead will be raised, corruptible will put on incorruption and mortals will put on immortality. Paul says here that some will be alive. So that tells us that until the last trump, all who sleep (are dead) will be raised and put on immortality.

His Son says,

Christ came, took our death penalty of the flesh to the cross, and returned to us the freewill to choose who we will serve,

Where does it say man didn't have the ability to choose whom he will serve? Have you never read Joshua 24:15; "...choose you this day whom ye will serve..."?

May God's peace and power be with you,

Ron

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Wow His son, you made quite the claim and yet offered no scritpural proof to back it up.

The funny thing is, we have quoted dozens of scritpures in complete support from Pual and Christ about the hope of the ressurection from the dead, and no one here has proven otherwise. Why would God who has given us His word include these wonderful scirpures in the bible if they did not mean truth?

Is it not simple enough to understand when Paul says that if we do not believe in the ressurection then our faith is in vain? 1Corth 15

Also, we do believe in eternity in heaven, however we show that heaven will come to us, not the other way around. The Lord's prayer supports this with the words.

They kingdom COME, thy will be done on EARTh as it is in heaven. Read Rev 22, I'll get back with other scritpural support. The KINGDOM of Heaven will be on Earth and that is the time of ressurection and judgement, not beforehand.

peace.