Greed in the Church

[stevehut]

In the end this is business and not ministry.

Yup.

But last time I checked, Ticketmaster didn't pretend to be a ministry.

[Qun Mang]

Just a clarification on a verse quote a few pages (and 45 minutes of reading ) back. 1Tim 6:10a indeed says in the KJV, "For the love of money is the root of all evil." However, most translations clarify this as not ALL evil but rather "all kinds of evil(s)." Example, the ESV says "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils." As far as I know the KJV and MKJV are the only ones to not make this clarification.

Albert Barnes has this to say about it:

That is, of all kinds of evil. This is evidently not to be understood as literally true, for there are evils which cannot, be traced to the love of money - the evils growing out of ambition, and intemperance, and debasing lusts, and of the hatred of God and of goodness. The expression here is evidently a popular saying -

[Qun Mang]

Wow. I killed another topic. Well, maybe not, but you wouldn't believe the number of topics in which I am left with the last word, not just here but elsewhere as well. Again, nothing of value to this now dead discussion. Only an observation.

[ted]

Your not getting it this time, Qun!

It's mine..all MINE!!

t.

[Qun Mang]

Anyway, this isn't to usurp your final say, but rather to mention that our Almighty may not appreciate your calling me just "Qun". <Wails> Forgive him lord for he knows not what he says! I don't wanna end up like Herod [Acts 12:22]!!! <Wails more>

(hint: look at my signature)

Okay, maybe I wanted the final say just a little, but please don't let me!

[ted]

I never noticed it!!!!

How about QM??

t.

[Qun Mang]

I never noticed it!!!!

How about QM??    

t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Works for me. I often use that abbreviation myself in fact.

So, t... Meet QM

[irishcowboy]

I have a question......

where can you live in the United States on a salary of 10,000 a year????

that is 833.33 a month...... BEFORE SELF EMPLOYMENT TAX AND INCOME TAX

you got to figure about 25% for those taxes ( not to forget about the other taxes such as sales tax and vehicle tax and insurance and social security tax and and and and )

after tax you have to figure 625. as their net income......

after that 625, how much are they going to use to help some one that might need a meal?? how much are they going to use for their natural gas bill? how much for the electric bill, how much for the water bill??? gas bill about 125 a month average

electric bill about 150 a month, and water ( water, sewer, trash ) about 60 - 100 a month... wow, they are making lots of money..... they now have 250 dollars left,

now for the insurance on their vehicle ( just one, cause they can not afford two vehicles at that income for liability insurance 50 dollars a month, cause they dont have any discounts for multiple insurance, and then have no renters insurance cause that would be about 100 a month for a 50,000 dollar policy.... now we are down to 200 a month left over..... ooooops, forgot about rent..... lets see, depending on where you are at, might be about 350 a month for a tar paper shack quality house, all the way to 800 a month for a studio apartment.....so now this pastor is down to a whoppppin negative income and has not even bought food, or gasoline for his car, so that he can make the hospital visits while you are in the hospital recovering from a stroke, which was brought on because of high blood presure due to worrying about whether or not the pastor is receiving tooo much money........

our pastor, our head pastor, if it was up to me, would be paid twice what he is, but he dont want it.... he wants the money to be used for the gain of the Kingdom.... he has donated ( out of his own pocket ) to people that needed a helping hand, he gives out of his income ( tithes )..... he sends to missions.... this man gives rides to people that need a ride cause their car is broke down.... this man left his "vacation" when the son of a member of the church was involved in a truck car suicide ( him being the truck driver and the driver of the car being the person pulling out and stopping infront of the truck on a super highway... traveled three hours to get there so he could comfort and minister to the man.... our pastor serves his congregation....... all the money that was received for pastor appreciation month was turned back over to the building fund......

if it was up to me, Pastor Jones would receive alot more then he does.... money is not the issue for him, spreading the Word of God is the mission he is on... training up people to "GO FORTH" to all the corners of the world.... and that my friend takes money......

it has already been said, blank tapes cost money, recording them cost, vidio tapes cost money, recording them also .... for shut ins and others on the road all the time that want to hear the messages...... we buy these tapes and give them out to people we know need them..... we have also purchased blanks and copied services and testimonies to be passed out to people that need them.... that can not make it to church.......

Tee shirts and hats and other stuff are good witnessing tools..... do you want to get them for free????? sheeesh......

tee shirts that are available at the church, are less expensive then those in the stores........

the monies go for good causes, spreading the word of God, searching out souls for the Kingdom, bringing children into the church, bringing adults into the church... ( the body of Christ )....... there are some that witness daily, and when they find some one that needs a home church, they will spend time with them trying to find them a local home church ( have traveled upto 1.5 hours one way to help people get established in a home fellowship, no matter what denomination that is right for them, one that is Spirit filled, not just one of their own denom.... this again takes money and time...... how about those that are in need of drug rehab? do we just say go over here and get in this program????? no, they may not have any money to get in the program...... how about prison ministries??? that is a mission field all its own..... training, material, fuel, vehicles...... where does this money come from?

how about the bicycle that the missionaries are riding???? where does that money come from??? how about that boat this one over here has, to get from island to island?????? what about the monies needed for medical supplies for those in need????

this money has to come from somewhere...... Paul/Saul made tents until he received sponsorship......

if you are going into the mission field, how are you going to get there?????? where is the monies going to come from????

if a person does not give according to their means........

God may make their means accordingto their giving.....

a rich man will be less likely to give 10% then a poor man...

10% of 10,000 is 1,000.....

10% of 100 is 10.....

it is alot easier to let go of a 10 then 1,000.... if a person dont want to give God what is already Gods, then they may need to have a decrease in pay, so that they can afford to give......hmmmmmmm

when a churchs budget consist of 12 dollars a week from each active member not including those that attend and are not members or those that are members and only come once a year, or are shut ins..... and they can not meet their budget constraints, and are actually running in the hole, cant afford a pastor cause they only want to pay the pastor 10000 a year..... this church is dying...... with in another 10 years, this church will shut the doors...... the refuse to spend a dime to bring anyone into the body...... they even have a pet name for themselves, they are known as the "FROZEN CHOSEN" ......... a contradiction in terms to say the least....

you think i foolin??? i aint.....

the church will only survvive as long as you give, not only money but of yourself...

our job is to be servants..... if you are not being a servant, you are being served and one day the one serving you will grow week from not being served and then you will also starve and grow week.......

we are to be full blooded servants..... that is one of the last things Christ told us to do.......SERVE OTHERS...........

Public Concerts are good for spreading the Message, but those concert halls are quite expensive..... not only does the money have to pay the rent on the place, but also the utilities.... think about the cost of the heat and air and lights for one auditorium that is used for a month....... runs several thousand dollars..... also the security of the people running the program, the sound booth, the people cleaning up all that snuck in soda that spilled ( that was not suppose to be there ) how about that hidden tape recorder???? you managed to sneak in with it, now what? time to black market the tapes?????? and you complain about the cost of the concert??? sheeeeesh......

personally, money will not be an issue in a short while.... there will be none to use.... it will all be credits in your account, and that little mark on the back of your hand will be you "money" for buying things......

the Love of Money is the root to all evil...... greed..... but when the money is being used for a ministry, then is it really greed???? is it really turning the church into a market place????? or is it being used to further the Kingdom......

mike