Why does Hell have to be eternal?

[Guest]

I explained my "basic" thoughts of this passage on post #201

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

~

The answer to that question can be found here:

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

So this basically means that "gentiles" meaning ppl with a good heart, do the things in the law (which are the basics of the 10 Commandments), which basically is to love, forgive, not steal, not lie etc.. Without having knowledge of the law of God, (Such as babies, kids, or even tribes in the amazons who never were exposed to God's law), are judged by their own morals by their conscience bearing witness to themselves. Meaning that if they were to steal something and felt in their heart it was wrong, and then regret it and try to make up for it, it would show that they have redeemed their own sin by their own conscience bearing witness.

Babies are pure of heart so they definitely go to heaven when they pass .

So then you may ask yourself why become a Christian then? We become Christians to help the ones who aren't "gentiles in heart" to find the light and to spread God's light upon this world to make it a better world.

The Gentile's

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

Heart

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9

And As For A Better Earth Well, By By Birdie

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:15-17

[His Ambassador]

Romans 3

as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

There are no good people ma'am, only sinners. That's why Jesus had to die. To reconcile men back to God.

You see God has a standard. Absolute holiness. But because Adam sinned, he has saddled ALL of us with his proclivity to sin. We're just like Adam. We can't be as good as we NEED to be, no matter how hard we try. That's why God sent Jesus. The punishment of sin is death. You need a sinless sacrifice to take away sin. That sinless sacrifice is Jesus. There is no such thing as a LITTLE sin, sin is not quantitative.

Surely you've heard of the tale of Superman. Superman had one weakness. Just one. Kryptonite. Whether it was a BIG piece or a LITTLE piece though, it could STILL KILL HIM DEAD. The little piece would take longer, but the end result is still the same: A DEAD SUPERMAN. Small or large, Kryptonite had the same effect. Well that's how sin is. Little or big, it will still kill you. God will judge you for it. Jesus has been judged in your place. God placed the effect of the sins of the entire creation on His Son. If you believe on Jesus as the atonement for your sin, God is satisfied that the price has been paid. If you don't believe, then God still sees sin in/on you and His holiness says: DEATH PENALTY FOREVER. It's cut and dry. Jesus or eternal death. Will you believe?

Bold Believer,

try to visualize this: a poor woman grew up into another faith. Cannot read, no access to any education, etc. Tries to do the best for her and her family. She would be indistinguishable from any other decent person, except, she grew up into another faith.

Can you really accept her burning forever in the lake of fire because of contingencies she had no control on?

Ciao

- viole

I realize you wrote this back in July so perhaps you are no longer reading this but I suspect, as an atheist you are trying to make a case against Christian teaching. Regarding this post you should read Romans 1: 19,20.

[j102]

Would it be just for a God of love to send one of His human creations to a lake of eternal fire after going through mortal suffering on Earth?

You seem to believe that suffering on earth removes the consequences of breaking God's laws. It doesn't. God is love - that is true- but God is also a God of justice, and He cannot let the guilty go unpunished.

Do you have a problem with a human judge sentencing a criminal to life in prison, or to death, for a heinous crime? Know that all sin is directed against a HOLY and eternal God, and it is eternally offensive to Him. It deserves an eternal punishment.

Hell wasn't created to rehabilitate. It was created for punishment.

It just sounds too harsh coming from a God of love. I'd take life in prison or a death sentence over eternal flesh burning fire anytime. No "human being" would think of such a cruel sentence for anyone. If God's love is stronger than a human being then why would He come up with such a cruel sentence not even a human being could think of?

When it comes to the punishment of those who spit in God's face by turning down His pardon, paid for by His suffering and blood, God didn't ask for our opinion.

You may not believe in a God who would punish someone eternally in Hell, but by doing so, you are simply committing idolatry. You are creating a god in your mind who is "too loving" to demand such harsh justice.

Are you aware just how serious God takes sin? Even ONE sin committed by us is enough to condemn us forever. God says to enter His heaven we must be PERFECT. Jesus said that if your hand causes you to sin, CUT IT OFF, because it is better to enter heaven maimed than to enter hell with both hands. He said if your eye causes you to sin, PLUCK IT OUT. Because it is far better to enter heaven with one eye than to have both of your eyes and be thrown into hell. Or are those passages also ones you feel are "mistranslated?"

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Scripture. Either it's all true, or it's all fiction.

How do you handle Scripture when it speaks of God destroying entire cities? Or having entire people groups killed right down to their livestock because of their sin?

God killed Ananias and Sapphira for telling one lie!

Or do you believe God was "too loving" to do that as well?

Read the book of Revelation sometime, and see how much of the world will perish through the judgments of God.

You can't separate God's Holiness from His JUSTICE.

And you are creating a God of fear...

and you are ignoring what God says in the Bible

[Selasphorus]

Would it be just for a God of love to send one of His human creations to a lake of eternal fire after going through mortal suffering on Earth?

You seem to believe that suffering on earth removes the consequences of breaking God's laws. It doesn't. God is love - that is true- but God is also a God of justice, and He cannot let the guilty go unpunished.

Do you have a problem with a human judge sentencing a criminal to life in prison, or to death, for a heinous crime? Know that all sin is directed against a HOLY and eternal God, and it is eternally offensive to Him. It deserves an eternal punishment.

Hell wasn't created to rehabilitate. It was created for punishment.

It just sounds too harsh coming from a God of love. I'd take life in prison or a death sentence over eternal flesh burning fire anytime. No "human being" would think of such a cruel sentence for anyone. If God's love is stronger than a human being then why would He come up with such a cruel sentence not even a human being could think of?

When it comes to the punishment of those who spit in God's face by turning down His pardon, paid for by His suffering and blood, God didn't ask for our opinion.

You may not believe in a God who would punish someone eternally in Hell, but by doing so, you are simply committing idolatry. You are creating a god in your mind who is "too loving" to demand such harsh justice.

Are you aware just how serious God takes sin? Even ONE sin committed by us is enough to condemn us forever. God says to enter His heaven we must be PERFECT. Jesus said that if your hand causes you to sin, CUT IT OFF, because it is better to enter heaven maimed than to enter hell with both hands. He said if your eye causes you to sin, PLUCK IT OUT. Because it is far better to enter heaven with one eye than to have both of your eyes and be thrown into hell. Or are those passages also ones you feel are "mistranslated?"

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Scripture. Either it's all true, or it's all fiction.

How do you handle Scripture when it speaks of God destroying entire cities? Or having entire people groups killed right down to their livestock because of their sin?

God killed Ananias and Sapphira for telling one lie!

Or do you believe God was "too loving" to do that as well?

Read the book of Revelation sometime, and see how much of the world will perish through the judgments of God.

You can't separate God's Holiness from His JUSTICE.

And you are creating a God of fear...

and you are ignoring what God says in the Bible

amen, brother.

Matthew 7:15 (KJV) ¹⁵ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[Jayyycuuup]

You know, maybe Viole is a lot purer than many Christians. I understand where she comes from. E. Yes she was into a "light" Christian phase at one time but she has studied rationality. F. And even though rationality cannot be compared to spirituality, it is part of understanding the whole. She is here for two reasons, one to challenge her doubts and two to satisfy her pride, and perhaps three to warn you of something you aren't aware of. Viole, it isn't by undoing your spirituality that you can undo what God sees in your heart you know. G. He isn't going to condemn you to hell if you don't follow His path. keep loving and living life as a precious gift that was given to you. Whatever you do I ask you for one thing as a fellow "human" being, do not reject the word of Jesus but instead learn to say it through your voice and hear it through your ears, and absorb it through your soul, H. You don't need a church or a preacher or a Bible,

I. all you need is the power of your own spoken word to yourself with faith in a higher power that comes from Jesus through you...

Interesting perspective. A few more questions I’d like to discuss as a Moderator (Servant)…

E. Are you saying there’s such a thing as a “light” Christian? Can one be slightly committed to Christ? Please clarify.

F. Can one come to a rational saving grace of Jesus Christ? Or is it through faith alone?

G. Does God not condemn people to hell who reject Jesus Christ?

H. Are you saying we don’t need the Bible to understand who God is?

I. Are you saying that one can save one’s self?

God bless,

GE

E. Are you saying there’s such a thing as a “light” Christian? Can one be slightly committed to Christ? Please clarify...

It means that some humans think that they have commited themselves to Jesus completly withouth realising that they haven't let go of such things as worldly desires acquired by inheritance of past loved ones they cannot forgive. And therefore the cycle goes on... unforgiveness, hatred...etc...It is a typical behavior amongst the human behavior' geen..no?

Interesting perspective. Perhaps your speaking of the parable of the seeds?

F. Can one come to a rational saving grace of Jesus Christ? Or is it through faith alone?

What is rationality in the first place? And what is faith? Rationality is the conditioned mind by society that has been taught to you. And therefore we all have been taught different morals. The most important part is to understand what moral understanding is no? The interesting thing I like about morals is that they are based out of the 10 commendt.....s And all 10 make sense when combined together... It is a simple formula for the well being of man kind. Not sure how long it will take t"ill it is absorbed but it is the source of Love and Freedom

Interesting perspective again. The most important part to understand is we are sinners in need of a Savior would you agree?

Thank you for answering so many of the questions my friend. Please if you would answer G, H, and I?

God bless,

GE

G. Does God not condemn people to hell who reject Jesus Christ?

It says that He does in the Bible. I believe "evil spirit filled" ppl who live by Satan's rules condemn themselves to hell. However I don't believe that a clean spirit who refuses to accept Jesus in their heart goes to hell.

H. Are you saying we don’t need the Bible to understand who God is?

Do we need to understand who God is to go to heaven? The answer to that is in Romans:2 14-16 And it clearly states that "some" who never had a chance to know God still do go to heaven.

I. Are you saying that one can save one’s self?

Again Romans 2 : 14-16

G. What do you take as "evil spirited" people?

John 3:18

"He that believes in him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Revelation 21:8

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

1 John 5:10

" He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

Revelation 21:27

"But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life"

2 Peter 3:9

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

John 14:6

"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

[Guest]

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

~

However I don't believe that a clean spirit who refuses to accept Jesus in their heart goes to hell.

Believe It

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

Or Not

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

~

All Are Dirty

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

All Are Stinky

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6

So Where Is Hope

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

Who Shall A Fellow Cleave To

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Who Is He

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

And What Is

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.1 John 5:11-13

His Name

Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:15-21

[OneLight]

G. Does God not condemn people to hell who reject Jesus Christ?

It says that He does in the Bible. I believe "evil spirit filled" ppl who live by Satan's rules condemn themselves to hell. However I don't believe that a clean spirit who refuses to accept Jesus in their heart goes to hell.

H. Are you saying we don’t need the Bible to understand who God is?

Do we need to understand who God is to go to heaven? The answer to that is in Romans:2 14-16 And it clearly states that "some" who never had a chance to know God still do go to heaven.

I. Are you saying that one can save one’s self?

Again Romans 2 : 14-16

There are basically only two groups of people. One who have heard the message of salvation and ones that have not. Those in your answer to "G", being of a clean spirit, is not possible without Christ. Your reference to Romans 2 is incomplete, for they do not save themselves, but are convinced by God, through nature, to do what is right. Romans 1 tells us that God made himself very clear to everyone through His creation. Let's look.

Romans 1:18-20

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Romans 2:14-16

for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Both groups are without excuse, for even the Gentiles, who did not have the law, were judged according to the secrets of their heart by Jesus Christ. If I read what you are posting correct, you believe that men can change themselves to be righteous before God. I give you that the Holy Spirit can use creation to work in a persons life and change them according to what God has made know to them, if they are willing to accept what the Holy Spirit will do in them. There is no self righteous men in Gods eyes. Out righteousness is as filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

[Hall7]

Would it be just for a God of love to send one of His human creations to a lake of eternal fire after going through mortal suffering on Earth?

You seem to believe that suffering on earth removes the consequences of breaking God's laws. It doesn't. God is love - that is true- but God is also a God of justice, and He cannot let the guilty go unpunished.

Do you have a problem with a human judge sentencing a criminal to life in prison, or to death, for a heinous crime? Know that all sin is directed against a HOLY and eternal God, and it is eternally offensive to Him. It deserves an eternal punishment.

Hell wasn't created to rehabilitate. It was created for punishment.

It just sounds too harsh coming from a God of love. I'd take life in prison or a death sentence over eternal flesh burning fire anytime. No "human being" would think of such a cruel sentence for anyone. If God's love is stronger than a human being then why would He come up with such a cruel sentence not even a human being could think of?

When it comes to the punishment of those who spit in God's face by turning down His pardon, paid for by His suffering and blood, God didn't ask for our opinion.

You may not believe in a God who would punish someone eternally in Hell, but by doing so, you are simply committing idolatry. You are creating a god in your mind who is "too loving" to demand such harsh justice.

Are you aware just how serious God takes sin? Even ONE sin committed by us is enough to condemn us forever. God says to enter His heaven we must be PERFECT. Jesus said that if your hand causes you to sin, CUT IT OFF, because it is better to enter heaven maimed than to enter hell with both hands. He said if your eye causes you to sin, PLUCK IT OUT. Because it is far better to enter heaven with one eye than to have both of your eyes and be thrown into hell. Or are those passages also ones you feel are "mistranslated?"

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Scripture. Either it's all true, or it's all fiction.

How do you handle Scripture when it speaks of God destroying entire cities? Or having entire people groups killed right down to their livestock because of their sin?

God killed Ananias and Sapphira for telling one lie!

Or do you believe God was "too loving" to do that as well?

Read the book of Revelation sometime, and see how much of the world will perish through the judgments of God.

You can't separate God's Holiness from His JUSTICE.

And you are creating a God of fear...

and you are ignoring what God says in the Bible

And you are being childish lol

[Hall7]

Would it be just for a God of love to send one of His human creations to a lake of eternal fire after going through mortal suffering on Earth?

You seem to believe that suffering on earth removes the consequences of breaking God's laws. It doesn't. God is love - that is true- but God is also a God of justice, and He cannot let the guilty go unpunished.

Do you have a problem with a human judge sentencing a criminal to life in prison, or to death, for a heinous crime? Know that all sin is directed against a HOLY and eternal God, and it is eternally offensive to Him. It deserves an eternal punishment.

Hell wasn't created to rehabilitate. It was created for punishment.

It just sounds too harsh coming from a God of love. I'd take life in prison or a death sentence over eternal flesh burning fire anytime. No "human being" would think of such a cruel sentence for anyone. If God's love is stronger than a human being then why would He come up with such a cruel sentence not even a human being could think of?

When it comes to the punishment of those who spit in God's face by turning down His pardon, paid for by His suffering and blood, God didn't ask for our opinion.

You may not believe in a God who would punish someone eternally in Hell, but by doing so, you are simply committing idolatry. You are creating a god in your mind who is "too loving" to demand such harsh justice.

Are you aware just how serious God takes sin? Even ONE sin committed by us is enough to condemn us forever. God says to enter His heaven we must be PERFECT. Jesus said that if your hand causes you to sin, CUT IT OFF, because it is better to enter heaven maimed than to enter hell with both hands. He said if your eye causes you to sin, PLUCK IT OUT. Because it is far better to enter heaven with one eye than to have both of your eyes and be thrown into hell. Or are those passages also ones you feel are "mistranslated?"

You can't pick and choose what you want to believe from Scripture. Either it's all true, or it's all fiction.

How do you handle Scripture when it speaks of God destroying entire cities? Or having entire people groups killed right down to their livestock because of their sin?

God killed Ananias and Sapphira for telling one lie!

Or do you believe God was "too loving" to do that as well?

Read the book of Revelation sometime, and see how much of the world will perish through the judgments of God.

You can't separate God's Holiness from His JUSTICE.

And you are creating a God of fear...

and you are ignoring what God says in the Bible

amen, brother.

Matthew 7:15 (KJV) ¹⁵ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

You've been reported for quoting a personal attack...

[Hall7]

Don't worry guys I'm done...