50 Evidences for the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

[Guest hubertdorm]

31. The Judgment of Israel (Ez 20:34-38) occurs after the second coming and requires a regathered Israel. Again, the separation of the saved and the lost would be unnecessary if all the saved had previously been separated by a translation at the second coming.

We have three groups here, not two-- the believers, the gentiles, and the Jewish remnant. The Parable of the Sheeps and Goats does not even mention the remnant. The separating occurs at the second coming.

32. At the Rapture, the church meets Christ in the air. At the second coming, Christ returns to the Mt of Olives.

And who says we can't meet Christ in the air just before he returns to the earth??? Matthew 24 (a second coming passage) shows that Christ comes on a cloud, and that we are gathered to him. It doesn't say we meet Christ on earth. Where is he? Coming on a cloud. Acts 1:9 Jesus is taken up to heaven on a cloud. Then the disciples are told that he will return in the same manner. Jesus comes to earth on a cloud. He does not come down on a cloud, then go back up to heaven!

33. At the time of the Rapture, the Mt of Olives is unchanged. At the second coming it is divided forming a valley east of Jerusalem.

Book, chapter and verse! No where in the entire bible does it say the Mount of Olives is unchanged at the Rapture. This is a blatant lie based on faulty logic and doctrine.

34. At the time of the rapture, saints are translated. No saints are translated at the time of the second coming.

Matthew 24 the saints are gathered to Christ. This means by definition that they are translated from one place to another.

35. At the time of the rapture, the world is not judge for sin, but descends deeper into sin. At the second coming, the world is Judged by the King of kings.

Book, chapter and verse for this. You can't--it's another lie. No where in the entire bible does it say the world is not judged at the Rapture but descends into sin. This is another lie based on speculation.

36. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance from the day of wrath, whereas the coming of Christ is a deliverance for those who have suffered under severe tribulation.

This is only an opinion. The day of Wrath occurs at the end of the tribulation, not during it.

37. The rapture is immanent whereas there are specific signs which precede the second coming.

There is no teaching in the bible that Christ could return at any given time. Imminence of return is another lie.

38. The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the NT. The second coming with the events surrounding it is prominent in both OT and NT.

The pre-trib rapture is a hoax not taught in any testament except the ones of deceived men. However, both the first and second comings of Christ are taught in both sections of our Holy Bible.

39. The rapture is only for the saved, while the tribulation and second coming deals with the entire world.

Yes, only those who are believers will be brought salvation at the Rapture. But this isn't evidence of a pre-trib rapture.

40. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the rapture. Many signs must be fulfilled before the second coming of Christ.

Again, untrue. John 21:18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish."

Here, Jesus tells Peter that he will be crucified when he is old. Obviously, Peter was not going to live to see Jesus' second coming. So, for the Church, they knew that as long as Peter was alive, Christ could not come back.

This alone disproves imminence. But Jesus gave other signs of things that had to happen before his return.

[Guest hubertdorm]

41. No passage in either OT or NT deals with the resurrection of the saints at the second coming nor mentions the translation of living saints at that same time.

Wrong. Revelation 20 Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

This is the first resurrection, and it involves the believers who were beheaded for their testimony.

42. Only the pre-trib view maintains the distinction between the "great tribulation" and the tribulations in general which we all experience.

??? I think everyone knows the difference between daily trouble and what the great-tribulation is.

43. The great tribulation is properly understood in the pre-trib view as a preparation for the restoration of Israel. (Deut 4:29-30. Jer 30:4-11, Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:1-2)

Wrong. The great tribulation is best described as the wrath of Satan, who fights against the children of God, and is worshiped by mankind.

44. Not one single passage in the OT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.

Not one single passage allows you to interpret "saints/elect" different from the Church."

45. Not one single passage in the NT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.

Every passage concerning the preparation for the tribulation is written to the church.

46. In contrast to mid trib or pre-wrath views, the pre-trib view offers an adequate explanation for the beginning of the great tribulation in Rev 6. These others are clearly refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the great tribulation begins long before the 7th trumpet of Rev 11.

the great tribulation doesn't start in Rev 6. It doesn't start until the antichrist sets up the abomination that causes desolation. The seventh trumpet is the end of the great tribulation. The book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

47. There is no proper groundwork provided that the 7th trumpet of Rev is the last trumpet of 1 Cor 15. It is accepted only on the basis of assumption. The pre-trib view maintains the proper distinction between the prophetic trumpets of the church and the trumpets of the tribulation.

Wrong. the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet, and it occurs at the end of the tribulation. The only reason to interpret it otherwise is if you believe that Revelation is written in Chronological order, or if you are a pre-tribber who doesn't "get it."

48. The Unity of Daniel's 70th week is maintained by the pre-trib view. By contrast, the mid-trib view destroys the unity and confuses the program for Israel and the church. The post trib view usually denies the clear teaching of the 70th weeks by subverting it into some form or another of allegory.

I'm curious to know what you think the 70th week teaches that i'm subverting.

49. The gathering of saints after the tribulation is done by angels whereas the gathering of the church is done by "The Lord Himself."

Read those three parables again. Here they are: The Sheep and Goats. The Net. The Wheat and the Tares. Jesus gave three parables describing the end of age. They are all the same event, even though the details differ.

50. Rev 22:17-20 And the Spirit and the Bride say come. And he that heareth, let him say come ... He who testifieth of these things saith

LaHaye classifies these verses under "Glorious Appearing." We (the Church) are the bride of Christ, and we do say "Come quickly Lord Jesus!"

[Guest hubertdorm]

whew, was that 50? I can't believe I've done all that work and I'm still overweight.

[Guest idied2]

50 Evidences for the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

And here is one of many scriptures that annuls it all.

Matthew 24

Great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Why would CHRIST tell you not to believe them if YOU are not going to be here?

For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

How could they deceive the elect if the elect are not here?

Matthew 24

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Which CHRIST are you listening to?

In CHRIST JESUS

[Guest hubertdorm]

idied2, couldn't you have posted that before I did all 50??!!

I also find it strange that John would address the book of Revelation to seven churches who wouldn't be on Earth to see it pass.

I find it strange that the one event Jesus would want us to be a part of he never bothered to talk about.

[Guest idied2]

idied2, couldn't you have posted that before I did all 50??!!

I also find it strange that John would address the book of Revelation to seven churches who wouldn't be on Earth to see it pass.

I find it strange that the one event Jesus would want us to be a part of he never bothered to talk about.

Hello hubertdorm

Be that as it may the LORD is warning those who are HIS. Who will be here during the great tribulation.

Matthew 24

Great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

When Christ comes.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Then those who are HIS who go up into the air to meet HIM. Will administer the final wrath of GOD on the ungodly.

In CHRIST JESUS

[Guest hubertdorm]

I agree with you, idied2. The other folk don't see it that way, but you're still right.

[salt and light]

Sorry, but I would rather listen to what Jesus, Paul, Peter and John said about the return of the Lord instead of these so called 50 "evidences" that some one posted on some website, besides, I visited that site a couple of years ago, and e-mailed that guy and tried to explain to him, but I guess he was stubborn and insisting there are 50 evidences for this unbiblical teaching.

[Budman]

I visited that site a couple of years ago, and e-mailed that guy and tried to explain to him, but I guess he was stubborn and insisting there are 50 evidences for this unbiblical teaching.

You may find this site quite enlightening, salt and light.

RaptureReady

warm regards

-bud

[Guest hubertdorm]

I agree with you Salt and Light. The Pre-trib position did not even exist until the 1800s. If the apostles believed Jesus would return for them before the antichrist came into power, they sure were lousy teachers. None of the elders they appointed retained any of their teachings on the subject. It is clear that the apostles (who received their instruction from Christ himself) had no such belief. Jesus said himself he would not return until after the tribulation. That's the end of the story. Paul said that anything different is deception. Look how many people have been deceived!

Those who believe in a pre-trib rapture have many claims and many "proofs." But as you and anyone can see who reads this topic, these "proofs" can be swatted down like flies. The interpretation is inconsitant, based not upon the scriptures but upon a bias of doctrine. Some parts are even totally made up! They claim that a pre-trib rapture is the only position that uses consistant literal interpretation even though they symbolize many literal passages. The position is full of errors and lies.