The Error of Replacement Theology

[Spinning Machine]

I have given the verse plus a second wittness that Pauls letter was to the Gentiles, it is comman knowledge the Apostle Paul's epistles are to the Gentiles Romans 11:13   it is you, who does not believe the Words of God and to convince yourself and others of this worldly doctrin of Zionism you  have to add to the scriptures by saying Pauls letters where written to "Jews" living in Italy, and to back up this assumption you reffer to Philippians where Paul states he is from the tribe of Benjamin ? It is very clear to me you have not a clue to what is written in The Holy Bible and therefore have no knowledge of Gods salvation plan for all men. go figar 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

I have a question for you since you have a strong position about the nation of Israel. Can a Jewish go to heaven? what is the requirement to go to heaven? in God's word is very clear: Jesus is the only way to heaven ... not a lineage or an inheritance or anything like that. Jesus in John 14 says: I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except through me. it does not say if you are from a Jewish lineage you will go to heaven. Therefore, there are many Jewish who as we speak do not believe in Jesus as their savior. We must recall that God sent many prophets to the nation of Israel and they rejected the word of God and our God even sent His only son to them and they not only rejected Him but also crucified Him. I know many Jewish who have come to know Jesus as their savior and also those who still reject Him! Jesus is Lord and the son of God!

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You are confusing issues.   No one here is arguing that Jews have salvation apart from Jesus.  You are trying to refute an argument that hasn't been raised.

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I'm glad we can agree. Salvation is through faith in Christ alone, and will never be by any other channel, no matter what race or creed people are naturally born into. All who are to become the eternal people of God must come through new birth by water and the Spirit.

 

 

 

 

And the problem is that we have people who confuse the issue of supporting  Israel as God's chosen people with salvation issues.  "Chosen" doesn't mean, "saved" and it doesn't mean, "favorite."   Israel will always be God's nation per Jer. 31:35-37.   That is why people like me can see the God prophetic plan for the Jewish people who will one day be spiritually restored per Ezekiel 36:25.

 

It is certain elements in the Church that have rejected Israel and they have projected their anti-Semitic theology onto God and dreamed a false teaching declaring Christians to be "Jews" and the church to be "Israel."   It is a contemptable teaching and has no basis in any sound hermeneutical treatment of Scripture.

[Guest shiloh357]

I have given the verse plus a second wittness that Pauls letter was to the Gentiles, 

 

 

 

Yes you have.  And I answered how you misinterpreted those texts and so far all you can do is rant and blow smoke instead of ractually esponding to the substance of what I posted.  It is clear that you can't respond to those responses because I presented sound hermeneutics and put your "Judenrein" theology to bed.

 

 

 

 

it is comman knowledge the Apostle Paul's epistles are to the Gentiles Romans 11:13   it is you, who does not believe the Words of God and to convince yourself and others of this worldly doctrin of Zionism you  have to add to the scriptures by saying Pauls letters where written to "Jews" living in Italy, and to back up this assumption you reffer to Philippians where Paul states he is from the tribe of Benjamin ? 

 

 

 

 

You still miss the point.  I am not saying that Paul is writing directly to Jews.  I am saying that he, in attempt to make a point to the Romans, is teaching that Jews are not at an advantage because they are Jews or were given the Torah.   He is actually using the imaginary Jewish interlociter and speaking through that interlociter to his primary audience.  That was a very common form of rhetorical speech/discourse in that day and age.   Yes, Paul says He is Jew and is from the tribe of Benjamin and don't forget Paul also considered himself a Pharisee even after he was saved.   Paul's own representation of his Jewishness after his conversion pretty much torpedoes the notion that Jews cease being Jews after salvation.

 

 

 

 

 

It is very clear to me you have not a clue to what is written in The Holy Bible and therefore have no knowledge of Gods salvation plan for all men. go figar 

 

 

 

 

Actually I am quite well acquainted with what the Bible says about salvation, and none of it includes the racism that drips from your posts.

[GoldenEagle]

 

Yes, Jesus remains the only way for Jews and Gentiles alike. And once we have entered the kingdom of God we lose our old identity and become new creations, born of water and the Spirit.

 

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This statement you keep dropping in as a drive-by post is getting tedious.  it is a tactic of trying to get people to defend a position they have not taken.  It is dis-honest, it is false, and it is un-Christ like.  Show any post in this thread, or any other one where any of us have stated that salvation results from anything outside of an acceptance of Christ.  I'll save you some time:  No one has.  So you might want to toss that red herring in the trash can where it belongs, because it is starting to smell. . .

 

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For reference...

 

red herring

noun

2. something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

[Spinning Machine]

Shiloh what are you babbling on about, 1st century rhetoric,  Paul's imaginary opponent etc etc:  pray  tell have you not read or heard about Gods Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost , Oh, I am still waiting for the scriptures that say I am not the new Jew. ps: have a google at the Supreme Courts of Isreal and tell yourself it is not a Masonic temple, and I dont do anti-semitic anything how could I being a Spiritual Jew. I love all my fellow man, even the ones who hate Jesus, because He was brutally sacrificed for all men. so I do not hate what my Lord died for. I tell you what I will go find some more scriptures to prove that I am also the new Isrealite and so you can do your rhetoric imaginary freind thingy bob,  he he      

[Guest shiloh357]

Shiloh what are you babbling on about, 1st century rhetoric,  Paul's imaginary opponent etc etc:

 

 

 

 

I am putting Paul's words in their historic context.  I am explaining how he is addressing Gentiles about matters of Jews and the Torah in Rom. chapter 2.   Why would Jewish matters be relevant to the Roman believers?    That is what I am addressing.   Paul was a man of his times. God didnt circumvent 1st Century cultural conventions to communicate His truth through His prophets or His apostles.  God used Paul, a very well educated and well-versed Rabbi who was skilled in the art of rhetoric to write the book of Romans.  In fact, since the Romans and the Greeks put a high premium on rhetorical skills, Paul was the ideal man to write the book of Romans.

 

 

 

 

 

pray  tell have you not read or heard about Gods Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost

 

 

 

 

Nothing I have said goes against the Holy Spirit's inspiration of the Scripures.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I am still waiting for the scriptures that say I am not the new Jew.

 

 

 

 

The problem is that the Scriptures YOU have presented don't say your are the new Jew.  I have already answered that canard.  I don't have to provide Scriptures to refute what the Bible doesn't say in the first place.   You are not a Jew.  The Bible knows nothing of this  concept of "the new Jew."   That is just an invention of sloppy ;theology  

 

In the Bible "Jew" only ever refers to the physical descendents of Jacob and anyone who says otherwise is a false teacher.

 

 

 

 

I tell you what I will go find some more scriptures to prove that I am also the new Isrealite and so you can do your rhetoric imaginary freind thingy bob,  he he 

 

 

 

 

You do that.  You present your case, and I will explain my position as to why you are wrong, and then you can respond. We can go from there.

 

 

 

and I dont do anti-semitic anything how could I being a Spiritual Jew.

 

 

Actually the very notion that Chrisitans are spiritual Jews is borne out of centuries of anti-Semitism in the church.   It's a very old heresy and Jews were heavily persecuted in Europe, especially during Easter in order to remind the Jews that they were rejected by God and replaced by the Church.   It is the motivation behind the numerous pogroms and other things leading up to the Holocaust.

 

Replacement theology is a very heretical belief.

[nebula]

I have given the verse plus a second wittness that Pauls letter was to the Gentiles, it is comman knowledge the Apostle Paul's epistles are to the Gentiles Romans 11:13   it is you, who does not believe the Words of God and to convince yourself and others of this worldly doctrin of Zionism you  have to add to the scriptures by saying Pauls letters where written to "Jews" living in Italy, and to back up this assumption you reffer to Philippians where Paul states he is from the tribe of Benjamin ? It is very clear to me you have not a clue to what is written in The Holy Bible and therefore have no knowledge of Gods salvation plan for all men. go figar 

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Why do you discount the record given by Buiblical scholars that Paul wrote Romans to both Gentiles and Jews?

 

Example:

 

From Paul’s greetings in Rom 16, we can discern the existence of several gatherings of Christians in the city. Rom 16:3-4 speaks of the house church of Prisca and Aquila.⁴⁵ Also, two more groupings of Christians surface in verses 14 and 15. Beyond this, the existence of additional groups is less clear. The wording in verses 10 and 11 may suggest that house churches are associated with these households.⁴⁶ The references to other individuals throughout the chapter create possibilities of other Christian meetings in which these believers participated. The evidence points to the existence of at least three house churches, with the possibility of even more.

 

Some scholars have highlighted the divisions between the house churches, normally along Jewish Christian and Gentile Christian lines, based on Paul’s instruction in 14:1-15:13.⁴⁷ This, however, understates the underlying unity assumed by Paul’s address to them as a single entity.⁴⁸ In Rom 16, some of the individuals are identified as Jews (note use of term suggenhv" in Rom 16:7, 11; cf. Rom 9:3), while many of the remaining are likely Gentiles. The names of believers are presented side-by-side without insinuations of friction between them. The absence of the term ejkklhsiva as applied to the Roman believers as a group has been used as to contend that the Roman Christians were independent from each other.⁴⁹ But Paul omits this attribution in Philippians, Ephesians, and Colossians as well.⁵⁰ The fundamental Christian unity mirrors the shared identity the Jews felt in spite of their participation in separate synagogues.

 

Source

 

 

 

 

 

it is you, who does not believe the Words of God

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  Disagreeing with your interpretation of what is written is not disbelieving God's word.

 

 

 

 

 

this worldly doctrin of Zionism

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Firstly, that's "doctrine".

 

Secondly, arguing against Replacement Theology has nothing to do with the political movement of Zionism.

 

Thirdly, no on here is discussing Zionism.

 

 

 

 

 

you  have to add to the scriptures by saying Pauls letters where written to "Jews" living in Italy,

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I never said that.

 

Paul wrote to the believers in Rome (not Italy - which technically did not exist back then). The believers consisted of both Gentiles and Jews.

 

 

 

 

 

and to back up this assumption you reffer to Philippians where Paul states he is from the tribe of Benjamin ?

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You have misrapresented my words again. I used that Scripture to show that Paul himself was a Jew.

 

 

 

 

 

It is very clear to me you have not a clue to what is written in The Holy Bible

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It is clear to me that you love twisting what people are saying to support yourself. Unbeleivable.

 

 

 

and therefore have no knowledge of Gods salvation plan for all men.

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Jesus said, "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (John 13:34)

 

Please exhibit the love of Jesus when you engage in debate, because so far all that has come from your posts is anything but love.

 

 

 

go figar

 

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The song "Figaro, figaro, figaro" runs through my head everytime I read this.

[Gandalf]

 

 

Yes, Jesus remains the only way for Jews and Gentiles alike. And once we have entered the kingdom of God we lose our old identity and become new creations, born of water and the Spirit.

 

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This statement you keep dropping in as a drive-by post is getting tedious.  it is a tactic of trying to get people to defend a position they have not taken.  It is dis-honest, it is false, and it is un-Christ like.  Show any post in this thread, or any other one where any of us have stated that salvation results from anything outside of an acceptance of Christ.  I'll save you some time:  No one has.  So you might want to toss that red herring in the trash can where it belongs, because it is starting to smell. . .

 

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For reference...

 

red herring

noun

2. something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

 

I don't appreciate your inclusion of the definition and getting techy. I was actually agreeing with Shiloh!!!! Can no-one but the select few post anything right on this thread??

Edited June 5, 2013 by GoldenEagle
Edited out personal attack and re-written in bold.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

Yes, Jesus remains the only way for Jews and Gentiles alike. And once we have entered the kingdom of God we lose our old identity and become new creations, born of water and the Spirit.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

This statement you keep dropping in as a drive-by post is getting tedious.  it is a tactic of trying to get people to defend a position they have not taken.  It is dis-honest, it is false, and it is un-Christ like.  Show any post in this thread, or any other one where any of us have stated that salvation results from anything outside of an acceptance of Christ.  I'll save you some time:  No one has.  So you might want to toss that red herring in the trash can where it belongs, because it is starting to smell. . .

 

-------------------------------------------------

For reference...

 

red herring

noun

2. something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.

 

I don't appreciate your inclusion of the definition and getting techy. I was actually agreeing with Shiloh!!!! Can no-one but the select few post anything right on this thread??

 

 

 

 

Not if their posting includes what you are saying about the Jews and the nauseating lie that the Jews cease being Jews when they get saved.      For some reason, Jews get saved and they are expected to forsake their ethnic identity.   No such demand is made of Native Americans, Southeast Asians, Hispanics, or any ethnic group in Europe.  The ONLY people who are forbidden to remain in their ethnic identity are the Jews.

 

 

So no, so long as you promote your Judenrein version of Christianity, there isn't much you can post that will be received or accepted as right.     By the way, it is rather internally inconsitent to claim that you are a Jew in Christ while claiming that in Christ physical Jews can no longer be Jews.   That is extremely racist and sloppy theology to say the least.

[Botz]

Just to throw something into the mix....The Israeli government is happy to call a Jew who believes in Buddha a Jew, or if he is an Atheist

a New-Ager, a Spiritist or whatever...but if he believes that the Jewish Rabbi Yeshua is his Messiah, then he cannot possibly be a Jew

any longer, he has become a proselyte a Christian.   

 

This is an on-going legal and religious conundrum that is constantly being stripped back to the bare bones in an attempt to define and consolidate

exactly what components in a person make him a Jew, and who has the right and the authority to define these things in the first place.

Something I am always keenly aware of is that in Nazi Germany, a Jew who believed Jesus was Messiah, would be considered vermin and gassed

along with his brethren...and the Israeli government does try and use that judgment as a bench-mark to the chagrin of the Orthodox.

 

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2008/04/messianic_jews_1.html

 

http://crossfaithministry.org/messianicjudaism.html