Pat Robertson: Dinosaurs From Before Time Of The Bible

[enoob57]

to be very honest, I have no idea at all what you are trying to say. I might as well be reading on of my wife's nursing manuals!

Well let's see how about this... That which ceases has no eternal value? Does that work? Then if God 'IS' only eternal

and about eternal things then why do we focus on that which ends above that which does not?

Mt 10:27-28

27 "Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops.

28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy

both soul and body in hell

NKJV

Wisdom is to approach the Bible in spiritual format loosing the confusion that exist in the created thing due to

satan's control there of! By loosing the bonds of this physical present-> by reckoning what will be/more important

than what is now... Or- the now only for what will be...

Jn 12:25-26

25 He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

26 If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone

serves Me, him My Father will honor.

NKJV

It is seen in the Holiness of God stressed by Jude

Jude 23

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

NKJV

Love, Steven

Thanks, that does help. But oddly enough it seems you just helped make my case for the death brought by Adam as being spiritual, since it is the spirit that truly matters. It was never the body that was meant to be eternal, it was always the spirit.

No because we are reasoning wrong God saw all that He created as good and that which is good is

eternally kept ... yet when disobedience entered into the garden curse and death for everything!

Ge 3:17-19

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree

of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it':

"Cursed is the ground for your sake;

In toil you shall eat of it

All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,

And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread

Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;

For dust you are,

And to dust you shall return."

NKJV

Here is where entropy began which in reality is the end of corporeal alignment yet energy is neither created or destroyed!

So that which is corporeal is not sustained by that which neither begins or ends represented by energy -

as the completed witness of God here

Ro 1:20-21

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

NKJV

Love, Steven

[enoob57]

The Tree of Life 'IS' The Spirit of Christ living In the born again... It is the sealing of eternal life for all those who

eat from It's boughs.... Seen in the Communion of His Body and His Blood... Love, Steven

The Spirit of Christ living In the born again was present in the Garden and needed to be guarded by cherubim with a flaming sword

Yes... had Adam and Eve eaten of the tree of life after sin they would have been eternally sealed in sin. It was God Grace to

prevent this till man could be brought to the place of New Birth in The Son... as is seen in this passage

1 Co 11:27-28

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

NKJV

The unworthy become the crucifiers... Love, Steven

If they were immortal prior to the sin, why was the tree necessary?

and I truly do not see the connection between that verse and the Tree of Life from Gen. seems a stretch to me. No more than

the Epiphanies of Him..

ETA: let me add that I think there is a valid and compelling argument for both points of view. I once viewed this as you do, but the more I read and studied the Bible the more I began to understand that the death being spoken of was spiritual and not physical. I fully understand I could be mistaken and I do appreciate you sharing your views with me

God 'IS' unique in that He alone determines the 'ALL' of things...

it is what I most worship Him in this- He Answers to no one yet to me being nothing

He has given His completed Revelation of His Son... I am burning inside because of

the Truth of Him in what He promises will be our reality in His Good Time ... Love, Steven

[enoob57]

]No because we are reasoning wrong God saw all that He created as good and that which is good is

eternally kept ... yet when disobedience entered into the garden curse and death for everything!

Ge 3:17-19

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree

of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it':

"Cursed is the ground for your sake;

In toil you shall eat of it

All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,

And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread

Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;

For dust you are,

And to dust you shall return."

NKJV

Here is where entropy began which in reality is the end of corporeal alignment yet energy is neither created or destroyed!

So that which is corporeal is not sustained by that which neither begins or ends represented by energy -

as the completed witness of God here

Ro 1:20-21

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

NKJV

Love, Steven

all of this assumes that physical death is a bad thing. That is a purely emotional point of view. I do not think there is compelling theological argument that physical death is inherently evil or bad.

Question for you, do you include plants in your view of "no death before the fall"?

see entropy...? Emotion cannot be taken out of our makeup it is to be controled is all!

[enoob57]

]No because we are reasoning wrong God saw all that He created as good and that which is good is

eternally kept ... yet when disobedience entered into the garden curse and death for everything!

Ge 3:17-19

17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree

of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it':

"Cursed is the ground for your sake;

In toil you shall eat of it

All the days of your life.

18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you,

And you shall eat the herb of the field.

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread

Till you return to the ground,

For out of it you were taken;

For dust you are,

And to dust you shall return."

NKJV

Here is where entropy began which in reality is the end of corporeal alignment yet energy is neither created or destroyed!

So that which is corporeal is not sustained by that which neither begins or ends represented by energy -

as the completed witness of God here

Ro 1:20-21

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,

even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

NKJV

Love, Steven

all of this assumes that physical death is a bad thing. That is a purely emotional point of view. I do not think there is compelling theological argument that physical death is inherently evil or bad.

Question for you, do you include plants in your view of "no death before the fall"?

God did not choose death for us... for when in it's throws The Son of God wept by its sorrows for us Jn 11:33-37

I think sometime we can be tainted with incorrect thoughts because of the sin and its hardening issues within the heart!

No one said death is evil it is The Blessed goodness of God in judgment of sin evil is to love death more than life and

that equates to loving this world and body! Love, Steven

[enoob57]

see entropy...? Emotion cannot be taken out of our makeup it is to be controled is all!

I saw entropy, but that does not answer the question, it makes me guess what you mean. A simple yes or no makes things much clearer.

Do you include plants in your view of "no death before the fall"?

I am not saying that emotion needs to be taken out of our makeup, I am saying it should not drive our views and decisions. Emotions are fickle and subject to change on a daily basis.

Yes I believe there was no curse, no death, no negative anything as God stamped all that He did as seeing it good! Love, Steven

[Tinky]

I asked for Bible passages that support the idea that Adam lost his immortality and physically began to die.

You are using circular reasoning here, not Biblical support.

A specific passage isn't needed with what is clearly stated in regard to death. - before the Fall, there wasn't any.

As far as simple reasoning goes, if Adam and all the animals were immortal why was the Tree of Life needed?

The same reason it will be used on the future re-created earth. (Revelation 22:2)

And as far as simple reasoning goes, why was reproduction necessary if all animals were immortal?

To fill the earth.

Have you even read the book of Genesis?

[enoob57]

Yes I believe there was no curse, no death, no negative anything as God stamped all that He did as seeing it good! Love, Steven

what did the animals and Adam and Eve eat before the fall?

Ge 2:16-17

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

NKJV

Especially Dinos

Isa 11:1-11 millennial kingdom carnivores become herbivores...

Isa 65:17-25 the eternal state in the New Earth also all herbivores...

Death is a result from the sin of man as all suffer in its wake

Ro 8:20-25

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty

of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together

until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within

ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope,

but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what

we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

NKJV

Love, Steven

[Guest]

Romans 5:17

17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)NKJV

again, this verse and the whole chapter seems to be pointing to spiritual death, not physical death.

Life

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:20-21

Is Life

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

And Really Alive

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

You See

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

So the T-rex was eating berries and plants. I'm sorry but that is comical.

Yeap

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Genesis 1:29-30

Funny

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

Huh....

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Genesis 9:3-6

I Wonder

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Luke 4:4

Just Who Is It

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:3-7

Who's Laughing Now

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:47-48

Hum....

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. Isaiah 65:25

~

It Seems To Me

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9

That Folks Who Claim To Worship The Jesus Of The Bible

And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the ship, so that it was now full.

And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish?

And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? Mark 4:37-41

Should Know That The God Of Abraham, Isaac And Jacob Will Not Be Squeezed

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:6-10

Into Those Sad And Hopeless Little Brain Boxes Of The Pagan, The Hardened Non-Believers

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:6-9

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

What has been pointed out, will always ring true. If dinosaurs lived and died before Adam, then the Bible is wrong and needs to be tossed into the trash heap, because it clearly teaches death first came into the creation because of Adam's sin of disobedience.

Pat is dead wrong.

yes, the Bible does teach that.

But does it teach that physical death or spiritual death came because of Adam?

the day that Adam sinned, did he die physically or spiritually?

Adam was immediately separated from God and his nature was changed as indicated in his feeling the need to hide from God when God came walking in the Garden.

The process of physical death in the world is a symptom of spiritual death and the curse that fell on the created order as a result of sin.

God did not engineer death into creation. The reason we know this is that God is in the process of restoring creation; it is a divine "reset" if you will, that brings creation back to the way it was BEFORE sin came into play.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

(Rev 21:3-4)

Since the Bible is the story of redemption and restoration, it only stands to reason that restoration implies that God is putting things the way they were. If there is no death, in the restored earth after sin is eradicated, it stands to reason that there was no death in the orginal earth, prior to sin. The earth is being put back to its pre-sin state.

If God engineered death into mankind prior to sin, then Romans 5:12-21 makes no sense. The Bible is clear in that pericope that sin (spiritual death, separation from God) is what brought death into the world. Jesus had to physically die to satisfy God's justice against sin, and He did so as "the last Adam." Just as Adam was the federal head of mankind in the Garden of Eden, Jesus as the last Adam was the federal head of mankind on the cross and He paid the price needed to redeem us and remove the curse of death that hung over the corporate body of humanity.

If death is not the product of sin; if death was engineered into humanity and the world prior to the fall of man, it would not be something we need to be "redeemed from." Because of Adam's disobedience death passed to all men, according to Scripture.