please help me with: Ezekiel 38 and 39

[blessed1195]

Hi Angels

I do not see this conflict happening until the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah. This battle is the final rebellion that will happen when satan is loosened from his chains and released from the bottomless pit. he will go out and deceive the nations to attack the kingdom of the Messiah.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I was taught that Hamongog and Armageddon happen at the beginning of the 7th trump right before Jesus returns. God fights this battle so all will know him.

This also makes sense since Chapters 40 to end of Ezekial are the most descriptive chapters of the millenium( the 1000 years of teaching), Chapter 44:25 is comforting because it lets people know that they will recognize their flesh families while we are all in spirit bodies( 1 Cor 15:52)

Hope this helps!

Blessed1195

[R.Brackett]

I read an interesting book called "Epicenter" by Joel Rosenburg (or was it Rosenthal) can't remember the authors last name, but the book was an interesting and easy read on the subject.

[antiaging]

Did somebody ever do a study on these 2 chapters?

I know its about the war of Russia against Israel, but I would like to know it in more detail, like which countries are going to be involved.

I'm doing a little study about those 2 chapters with my daughter and I want to make sure I give her the right explanation.

Thanks alot: Angels

This is the next big prophecy to be fulfilled; the situation in the middle East will get worse till this happens.

Details of the next prophecy to be fulfilled Ezek. chapters 38, 39

These are the names given in the prophecy:

Ezekiel 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Ezekiel 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Ezekiel 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Ezekiel 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

Ezekiel 38:7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

Ezekiel 38:8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

Ezekiel 38:9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

Gog is russian leader magog is Russia. Meshech is a root word for Moscow. It will be the Russsian leader in the position that Vladmir Putin is now in.

The biblical persia is Iran and Iraq together. Gomer represents Germany or France.

house of togormah is east germany

It says this is to happen in the latter years, which is the time close to the end. Now can be considered the latter years, because Israel is a nation again.

Ezekiel 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Sheba and Dedan, which are Jordan and Saudi Arabia, are going to question this army when they come toward Israel.

Those names are names of people mentioned in the geneology in the bible. The lands where they lived are named after them, that is how bible scholars know what lands are being referred to . The old persian kingdom was on the land of Iran and Iraq together. Verse 38:7, shows that Russia is going to be like a guard to the armies of all of those smaller nations.

Reasons why this is the next prophecy.

It has not happened yet. The prophecy speaks of Israel coming back into their land from many different nations. The only time that this happened in history, is after World War 2, with Israel becoming a nation again in 1948. In the past, Israel came back into their land from only one nation, babylon.

It is a future prophecy. It says in the prophecy that this would happen in the latter years or days, which is now and leading on into the future, before Jesus comes back.

It is not the same as the prophecy about the Antichrist.

The prophecy about the antichrist, in the book of revelation and the book of Daniel, show that Antichrist will take over the Holy Land and set up his throne in Jerusalem for the last 3 and a half years of the tribulation period, before Jesus returns. In the Ezekiel prophecy, the armies invading Israel will not take it over, but will die on the mountains of Israel before they reach Jerusalem.

There is only one invasion of Israel during the tribulation period, of the book of Revelation, and it is the invasion by the Antichrist. So the Ezekiel prophecy cannot happen during the tribulation period which is the last 7 years before Jesus comes back.

The Ezekiel prophecy cannot happen after the tribulation period. After the tribulation period is the Millenial reign of Christ on the Earth, ruling with the saints in glorified bodies, for a thousand years, and there is no war like the Ezekiel prophecy during that thousand years when Satan is bound and cannot deceive anyone.

The Ezekiel prophecy does not happen after the thousand year reign. In Revelation, Gog and magog are mentioned, after the thousand year reign but this is just a reference to the land in which Gog and Magog lived and it is not referring to the same man Gog, in Ezekiel.

[Gog and Magog are two people in the geneology of the Jews a long time ago. The land that they lived in is called by their names.]

In the Ezekiel prophecy, it shows that Israel had recently been gathered into their land and live in unwalled villages. After the millenial reign, in Revelation, people from the lands of Gog and Magog are going to attack the camp of the saints. So this cannot be the same as the Ezekiel prophecy. The saints will live in one camp, and they lived there for a thousand years already. This is different from what it says in the Ezikiel prophecy.

So, the only time for the Ezekiel prophecy to happen is in the future and before the 7 year tribulation period starts.

Iran is now starting to gain influence over the Shiites in Iraq. The old persian empire is Iran and Iraq together being ruled from Iran. As Iran gains more control over Iraq, it begins to look more like the old persian empire. Also Russia is allied with Iran now, and I saw on Tv that Russia has offered to enrich their uranium for them.

[antiaging]

What I find most interesting about the passage in Ezekiel 38 are the countries that ARE NOT listed? Think about it -- Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, and Lebanon. Something has to happen to these countries in order for them not to be listed in this prophecy.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

Jordan and Saudi arabia are sheba and dedan.--They are listed.

Iraq is half of Persian empire along with Iran.--It is listed.

[Guest jeffythepooh]

Did somebody ever do a study on these 2 chapters?

I know its about the war of Russia against Israel, but I would like to know it in more detail, like which countries are going to be involved.

I'm doing a little study about those 2 chapters with my daughter and I want to make sure I give her the right explanation.

Thanks alot: Angels

We fight against powers and principalities to say that you have it narrowed downed to Russia and Isreal is uninformed. Jesus was sent to death by

Mat 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:

There is a "little" bit more there then saying it this country or that country.

Its about frame of mind.

[Celt]

Hello all,

A lot of things to note about that Ezekiel 38-39 prophecy. Ezekiel was a prophet to the "house of Israel"; that means the ten tribes of Israel (Israelites other than Jews). The specific battle place will be called "Hamongog", which is yet to exist per history. It is linked with the battle of Armageddon in Rev.16, because God tells us through Ezekiel that He will be The One to fight it. God makes that specific point at the end of Ezekiel 39.

It makes sense, because if God gave us power to defeat our enemies at that time, then they'd just say we got the best of them until the next time. They wouldn't recognize God's Hand in it. So Hamongog will be about God's Hand upon those armies that come upon His people in the last days. They will know He did it, and not by our hand. Recall prophecy in Daniel about the kingdom of the vile one being defeated without hand, meaning not by man's hand, but by God's direct intervention. That points to a link with the Daniel prophecies about the false one coming in the last days, which also links to Revelation about the false one and later Armageddon.

There's also several metaphors of the enemy's defeat given in Ezek.39 that parallel Rev.16 and 19 about Armageddon. That Gog and Magog are mentioned again after Christ's thousand years reign, it's to show the wicked being defeated in final after Christ's reign. Satan and the wicked are not destroyed until the "lake of fire" event of Rev.20:14-15, which is after Christ's Milennium.

I have little doubt that Ezek.38 is pointing to Russia. Russia is still today... primarily a Communist nation. There are many, many Christians there still, as it was a Christian nation before the Communists took over the government in 1917. The royal family were linked to the bloodline of Queen Victoria of Great Britain. But don't be fooled, because the controlling powers in Russia today are still a majority of Communists that have not stopped their plan for one world conquest. Many of the weapons and training the Islamic extremists has come from the Communists. Even when Israel invaded Lebanon of late, Russia sent military supplies to the Hizbolla terrorists in Lebanon to fight against Israel. Israel did a low-level raid in Syria last year, and Russia sent a message to Israel to be careful, because Russia has military advisors there.

Persia represents today's Iran, Iraq, and Syria. That's where the area of old Persia was. Libya we know about, since President Reagan sent bombers during his administration to take out Kadafie. The area south of Egypt in ancient times was Ethiopia. But Sudan is there now, with Ethiopia east of Sudan and is smaller. Sudan like someone already said, is where many Christians are being killed by Muslim extremists. Togarmah used to be the area of Turkey, but it could around Turkey since they're part of Nato and one of our allies (could change though, since they are a Muslim nation). Gomer refers to areas west of Turkey, as it was part of old eastern Greece or Cappadocia. Today that might represent one of the old Soviet satellite nations in southeastern Europe.

Sheba and Dedan, are areas that ask if the northern armies have come to take a spoil (Ezek.38:13). That shows most likely they are not with them. Today Jordan and Saudi Arabia are our allies. Egypt's history has been to sit and do nothing. So that's probably why they are not mentioned being in league with Gog.

There's still another part to the prophecy, which I offer in my next post, and it involves us in the West.

Dave

[Celt]

This part you may call speculation, or my opinion. But it is Scripture based with events that are happenning now. Put it on a shelf if you don't understand it. Keep studying in God's Word and I think you will.

What about us in the West? Aren't we being surrounded today by our enemies, just like Israel in the Holy Land is? Doesn't it seem that we in the West have lost some control of our borders, and our strength in the Americas? President Clinton slipped up when he said he thought Red China would do a good job of running the Panama Canal. Our government gave Gorbachev the U.S. Army Presidio facility in California for his one-world summit meetings; foreign companies have also been allowed to work in U.S. port authority inspections. Mexican commandos that we trained originally are now working for the Latin American drug cartels, and popping across our southern borders with none stopping them, not to mention outright murder of U.S. Sherrif Dept. officials in southern Texas near the border. Venezuala has fallen to a Communist controlled government. Panama and Columbia have too. Aristide (socialist) was replaced in Haiti, which our government helped do. And Russia has been building Bear bomber bases close to Alaska while trying to reneg on water fishing rights off Alaska. When the Berlin Wall came down, it allowed a huge trek of Communists-Socialists to instantlly infiltrate into western Europe. Islamic mosques are popping up more than ever in the West; and as of late, there will be a Muslim trained politician (Obama) running for the President of The United States of America.

A very important point of Bible history that is needed to grasp this, is about a link with the "house of Israel" and God's Plan in the West; the western Christian nations. Ezekiel was sent specifically as a prophet and a "watchman" to the "house of Israel" (Ezek.3:1; 3:4; 3:5; 3:17; 17:2; 33:7; 39:12; 39:22-29). The "house of Israel" is specifically pointed out as burying the defeated armies at Hamongog.

After Solomon's days, God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms. The 3 tribed kingdom Judah, Benjamin, and Levi made up the southern kingdom of "house of Judah" at Jerusalem. But the rest of the tribes, ten, made up the nothern kingdom of the "house of Israel" (see 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17). After those days, the "house of Israel" only refers to the ten tribes of Israel, which made up the majority of Israelites even then. God then scattered the ten tribes out of the Holy Land captive to the land of the Medes (northern Babylon, i.e. today's northern Iraq). There still stands a mountain rock carving called the Behistun Rock in northern Iraq about their captivity there. The majority of them were then later scattered west, into Asia Minor and western Europe among the Gentiles. Their scattering to the West fulfilled the Genesis 48 prophecy that Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations", and his brother Manasseh would also become "great". Since Jacob said let his name Israel be named upon those two sons of Joseph, it means those "multitude of nations" mean Israelite nations. It does not only point to the nation state of Israel in the Holy Land, but to the West among the western Christian nations.

The two 'houses' of Israel have yet to be joined into "one stick" like the Ezekie 37 prophecy declares. They are still separate today, and will not be joined until Christ returns to defeat the northern army.

So if you've wondered why it seems we in the West are being weakened, like the nation state of Israel also is being weakened today, it's all in prep for this Hamongog-Armageddon event when God Himself will step in to defeat our enemies for us. We are expected to keep The Faith, and understand why these events are going on today, and what their ultimate purpose is. That's why God gives us the account of His defeating the northern armies, and ESPECIALLY why He also gave us a specific list of the nations making up that northern army. It's so we can be watching, and prepare for Christ's coming. The joining of most of those nations in Ezekiel 38 is here already today. We're not going to hear a lot about it in our socialist-controlled news media. But God has allowed, and will allow enough news of their working to pop up now and then so we can take notice.

Dave

[ps127v1]

Identity of the invaders. Where is the land of Magog? It seems almost certain that these verses in Ez. refer to none other than that of Russia. Ez. tells us that the invasion will come from the uttermost part of the north. Josephus assures us that the descendants of Magog (Japheth's son and Noah's grandson) migrated to an area north of Palestine. Herodotus writes that Meshech's descendants settled north of Palestine.

Ez. lists five nations who will join Russia during her invasion. These are Persia, Ethipia, Libya, Gomer, and Togarmah. They refer to Persia (modern day Iran) Ethiopia (black African nations ie in South Africa) Libya (Arabic African nations ie North Africa) Gomer (East Germany) and Togarmah ie southern Russia and the Cossacks perhaps Turkey).

Reason for invasion is to cash in on the riches of Palestine (Ez. 38:11,12), to control the Middle East, in controlling the Middle East one could control that part of the world because it bridges all areas. The invasion is to challenge the authority of the anti-christ as well.

[Ephesians2-8]

It looks like this thread is still active enough for me to think it might be helpful to post an interesting resource guide.

For anyone truly wanting THE Ultimate study resource on this subject, I recommend the following book:

"The Silence Is Broken" by Douglas Berner. It is nearly 400 pages in softcover. Douglas Berner does a great job in covering ALL identity theories about who is Magog and the allies that join in the war on Israel.

Berner also gives the pros and cons for each identity theory argument. He of course also goes into detail on where, why and what all is involved in the prophecy.

Perhaps the most fascinating part of his research deals with the issue of "when" and the various theories that have popped up over the years. He gives the pros and cons for each. He personally things it is likely (not being dogmatic) that Magog's war could occur before the rise of the Antichrist and even before the Tribulation or even before a Pre-Trib rapture. Now that, to me is a stunning notion. His logic seems rather strong too.

The book is very well researched and written, although I disagree with him about Russia being Magog. My research strongly remains with 2000+ years of opinion that Magog is what we know to day as Turkey. So even though I tend to disagree with him on Russia (and I'm not dogmatically opposed to the idea of Russia being Magog - its just that I think there are serious problems with the idea) I still highly recommend his book whether for newbies to prophecy or old scholars and know-it-alls.

I think its available on Amazon but he also has a website:

www.thesilenceisbroken.us

Hope this post helps someone who is searching for answers.

[yaqub]

No, I don't believe Russia is involved. I'll go thru the list first:

1. Magog - (Scythians) Turkey and the Central Asian republics.

2. Meshach - (Mushki) Central & WesternTurkey

3. Tubal - (Tabal) Eastern Turkey

4. Persia - Iran & Iraq

5. Cush - Upper Egypt, Sudan, Eritrea, etc.

6. Put - Libya

7. Gomer - (Gimarrai or Cimmerians) Cappadocia in Turkey

8. Beth Togarmah - (known as Tilgarimmu in Assyrian) Anatolia in Turkey and Armenia.

Feeble opposition:

1. Sheba and Dedan - Arabia

2. Tarshish - disputed.

The names in bracket are the ancient names of those places, and bears a much closer linguistic connection than Moscow, Tobolsk, Rus, etc. For example, Gomer and Gimarrai have the same consonants (remember that Hebrew is not written with vowels), Tubal and Tabal, etc.

Now about Rosh. The normal meaning of Rosh is chief or leader, and many felt that instead of reading "Rosh, Meshech and Tubal", should read "chief prince of Meshech and Tubal".

Edited August 1, 2008 by yaqub