OneLight Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2013 It's kind of like reading books that Watchman Nee wrote. I really enjoy reading them and I connect with a majority of his writing... He was a very deep spiritual writer. But that doesn't mean I agree with everything he writes. I mean there are some things that he teaches on, I think to myself... yeah, not so much. However, most of his teachings are very enriching and I believe taught to him by God's Spirit. Just in a different way than to others. Concerning the matters I don't necessarily agree with, that doesn't mean red flags go up for me... it just means that I don't connect with it... whether right or wrong. That's between God and him, and I just roll by them. Since you are responding indirectly to a statement I made, allow me to explain. Red flags are do not always mean something is definitely wrong. They mean that more attention needs to be given to what is being presented. As I said, when personal revelation is spoken, red flags go up so I pay closer attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2013 Will you point to scripture where you find your solid evidence as to when we will be confronted by those whom we have done wrong to, be it human or not? Your statement "There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf." is a personal belief, from what I have read. The scripture I stand on are the ones where the books will be opened, or we will be judged according to our works. There is never any mention of any created standing in person with accusations on that day. Division comes from those who are forcing their doctrine on others, both from scripture and from extra-biblical sources. If they don't agree with them on scripture, then they deem them an apostate or not really saved. Divisions comes when someone hears or thinks something that is outside of the beliefs of others, and decides to follow them voluntarily, not by force. Onelight, read Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." I don't believe anyone is questioning this. and read Num 22:22-28 NASB But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (23) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand, the donkey turned off from the way and went into the field; but Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back into the way. (24) Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side. (25) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall, so he struck her again. (26) The angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place where there was no way to turn to the right hand or the left. (27) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. (28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" I don't get it, this isn't my "belief"... it's God's Word. Rightly dividing His word is what is important. Just because an ass spoke to Balaam does not mean that the animals will stand accusing people of the bad treatment they did to them. This is not scripture about the end times, but about how God got the attention of a wayward prophet. We cannot take what had happened before and apply it to what will happen in the future like that. Do you believe that a chariot of fire will appear with horses of fire and take us up by a whirlwind into heaven as it did to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11b? I was thinking where did I say that we will have to answer to animals? I realized that i said "God can make animals speak" and the next sentence was "and we will have to give an account". However, these two sentences are not related. Two statements... I believe we will have to give an account to God for any animal abuse. Job 12:7-10 NASB "But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. (8) "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. (9) "Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, (10) In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? What you said is found in two places. Here is the first: God can and will make the animals speak. SO remember, every animal we abused, we will give an account for. and the second: There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf. Your two statements tell me that you believe that animals will talk with God to inform Him of the abuse they received from people and we will be held accountable for their confession, and as we stand accountable, they speak on their behalf. Animals don't have to tell God anything, He already knows. Perhaps you can explain what you meant by "speak on their behalf" if you did not mean that they will be accusing people for the abuse they had from them? What other "behalf" would there be? If I am mislead, please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit_Tracker Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/17/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Will you point to scripture where you find your solid evidence as to when we will be confronted by those whom we have done wrong to, be it human or not? Your statement "There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf." is a personal belief, from what I have read. The scripture I stand on are the ones where the books will be opened, or we will be judged according to our works. There is never any mention of any created standing in person with accusations on that day. Division comes from those who are forcing their doctrine on others, both from scripture and from extra-biblical sources. If they don't agree with them on scripture, then they deem them an apostate or not really saved. Divisions comes when someone hears or thinks something that is outside of the beliefs of others, and decides to follow them voluntarily, not by force. Onelight, read Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." I don't believe anyone is questioning this. and read Num 22:22-28 NASB But God was angry because he was going, and the angel of the LORD took his stand in the way as an adversary against him. Now he was riding on his donkey and his two servants were with him. (23) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way with his drawn sword in his hand, the donkey turned off from the way and went into the field; but Balaam struck the donkey to turn her back into the way. (24) Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path of the vineyards, with a wall on this side and a wall on that side. (25) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed herself to the wall and pressed Balaam's foot against the wall, so he struck her again. (26) The angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place where there was no way to turn to the right hand or the left. (27) When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. (28) And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" I don't get it, this isn't my "belief"... it's God's Word. Rightly dividing His word is what is important. Just because an ass spoke to Balaam does not mean that the animals will stand accusing people of the bad treatment they did to them. This is not scripture about the end times, but about how God got the attention of a wayward prophet. We cannot take what had happened before and apply it to what will happen in the future like that. Do you believe that a chariot of fire will appear with horses of fire and take us up by a whirlwind into heaven as it did to Elijah in 2 Kings 2:11b? I was thinking where did I say that we will have to answer to animals? I realized that i said "God can make animals speak" and the next sentence was "and we will have to give an account". However, these two sentences are not related. Two statements... I believe we will have to give an account to God for any animal abuse. Job 12:7-10 NASB "But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. (8) "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. (9) "Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, (10) In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? What you said is found in two places. Here is the first: God can and will make the animals speak. SO remember, every animal we abused, we will give an account for. and the second: There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf. Your two statements tell me that you believe that animals will talk with God to inform Him of the abuse they received from people and we will be held accountable for their confession, and as we stand accountable, they speak on their behalf. Animals don't have to tell God anything, He already knows. Perhaps you can explain what you meant by "speak on their behalf" if you did not mean that they will be accusing people for the abuse they had from them? What other "behalf" would there be? If I am mislead, please clarify. No I am not saying that animals will talk to God and tell Him who abused them. Yes I know God already knows. "speak on their own behalf." The Donkey spoke to Balaam. The donkey spoke on it's own behalf, with a real voice. The angel did not speak for the donkey. The donkey spoke... and she asked him "why are you hitting me?". What does this mean to you OneLight? Is this just fluke incident in the bible? Did the angel really use the donkey like a ventriloquist would? And the donkey's words were really the angels? Or did the donkey open its mouth and speak on it's own behalf? Also what does the verse in Revelation mean to you? Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." Do you read this verse as every created thing will say... as in speaking, or do you think this is symbolism or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2013 What you said is found in two places. Here is the first: God can and will make the animals speak. SO remember, every animal we abused, we will give an account for. and the second: There is solid evidence that God can make animals speak on their own behalf. Your two statements tell me that you believe that animals will talk with God to inform Him of the abuse they received from people and we will be held accountable for their confession, and as we stand accountable, they speak on their behalf. Animals don't have to tell God anything, He already knows. Perhaps you can explain what you meant by "speak on their behalf" if you did not mean that they will be accusing people for the abuse they had from them? What other "behalf" would there be? If I am mislead, please clarify. No I am not saying that animals will talk to God and tell Him who abused them. Yes I know God already knows. "speak on their own behalf." The Donkey spoke to Balaam. The donkey spoke on it's own behalf, with a real voice. The angel did not speak for the donkey. The donkey spoke... and she asked him "why are you hitting me?". What does this mean to you OneLight? Is this just fluke incident in the bible? Did the angel really use the donkey like a ventriloquist would? And the donkey's words were really the angels? Or did the donkey open its mouth and speak on it's own behalf? This is the one and only time outside of the Garden of Edan that an animal spoke. Is it a fluke? No, it was God using the ass to open the eyes of Balaam, who was going against Gods will, by allowing it to speak. There are no other incidents ever mentioned in scripture after this one of any animal speaking. Also what does the verse in Revelation mean to you? Rev 5:13 NASB And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." Do you read this verse as every created thing will say... as in speaking, or do you think this is symbolism or? That is what John heard. Worship does not have to be verbal to be worship, though that may be how it is heard in heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit_Tracker Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/17/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 Also, I think I should clarify that this topic is more of a philosophical nature than doctrinal. I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit_Tracker Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/17/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) See, I'm not sure about that... because the angels said that he was about to kill Balaam, as an adversary, and the donkey pretty much saved his life. I read these verses tow fold... one is that Balaam was abusing the donkey by striking it repeatedly, and the other that Balaam was supposed to meet his death that day. And the angel would have spared the donkey and let her live. So I believe there is a message to be learned here... a few of them actually... concerning the abuse of animals and that God can give a voice to an animal. God can give a voice to anything really. Edited March 8, 2013 by Spirit_Tracker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2013 I think it's time for a break from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted March 8, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2013 I agree this topic needs a break because it has gone so far out in left field, but I must answer the post that addresses what actually happened. The Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, not an angel. You can be sure of this because this is what scripture tells us. Numbers 22:28-35 28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have abused me. I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would kill you!” 30 So the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden, ever since I became yours, to this day? Was I ever disposed to do this to you?” And he said, “No.” 31 Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the Angel of the Lord standing in the way with His drawn sword in His hand; and he bowed his head and fell flat on his face. 32 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to stand against you, because your way is perverse before Me. 33 The donkey saw Me and turned aside from Me these three times. If she had not turned aside from Me, surely I would also have killed you by now, and let her live.” 34 And Balaam said to the Angel of the Lord, “I have sinned, for I did not know You stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it displeases You, I will turn back.” 35 Then the Angel of the Lord said to Balaam, “Go with the men, but only the word that I speak to you, that you shall speak.” So Balaam went with the princes of Balak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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