Isaiah 65- New Heavens, A New Earth, Yet death

[Starise]

Isaiah 65: 20 Is the text for my question. Particularly the words in verse 20 " He who dies at 100 will be thought a mere youth."

Verses 17-19 make it clear the text is talking about the New heaven and new earth God will create after the former one is passed away.

Death was one of the things the cross vanquished, yet the text says men will live much longer, yet die.

This ties in with an original question I had concerning the need for reproduction before sin. "If" men had never sinned we would still have reproduced physically correct? 

It would appear there is a cyclical life/death even after the new heaven and earth are formed. This would likely be a re establishment of the plan God intended before the fall of man. One can only guess how that would work. If men live longer, then there will be more men on the earth or elsewhere. If men still die where do their souls go after that? 

Or is the text somehow maligned through translation? If people die at 100 they will be considered accursed. This would imply there is a life system based on behavior where God can "curse" someone in the new earth and they will die earlier. 

I was always taught we live forever after we die in Christ.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Isaiah 65: 20 Is the text for my question. Particularly the words in verse 20 " He who dies at 100 will be thought a mere youth."

Verses 17-19 make it clear the text is talking about the New heaven and new earth God will create after the former one is passed away.

Death was one of the things the cross vanquished, yet the text says men will live much longer, yet die.

This ties in with an original question I had concerning the need for reproduction before sin. "If" men had never sinned we would still have reproduced physically correct? 

It would appear there is a cyclical life/death even after the new heaven and earth are formed. This would likely be a re establishment of the plan God intended before the fall of man. One can only guess how that would work. If men live longer, then there will be more men on the earth or elsewhere. If men still die where do their souls go after that? 

Or is the text somehow maligned through translation? If people die at 100 they will be considered accursed. This would imply there is a life system based on behavior where God can "curse" someone in the new earth and they will die earlier. 

I was always taught we live forever after we die in Christ.

David saw a vision and he said: 

Psalm 110:1,2

The Lord says(A) to my lord:[a]

“Sit at my right hand(B)
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet.”(C)

2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter(D) from Zion,(E) saying,
    “Rule(F) in the midst of your enemies!”

 

Also Stephen saw a vision and he said: 

Acts 7:55,56

 But he, (CF)being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the (CG)glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! (CH)I see the heavens opened and the (CI)Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

David who lived long time before Stephen the martyr of the Gospel of Jesus Christ wrote down what will happen sometime in the future.  

Stephen the disciple of Jesus Christ who died as a martyr for the witness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ after the even of the Penticost said just before he died that what David had prophesied has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ. 

Stephen who was one of the disciples who followed Jesus and was with him aal the time before and after his resurrection let us know that Jesus Christ is the one sitting on the right hand of God...

Stephen knew Jesus before and after the resurrection and it is impossible to be mistaken for his identification because that cause his death by the Jews. 

Isaiah 51:6 (ASV) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath; for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment; and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Your closest friendnt

[missmuffet]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Isaiah 65: 20 Is the text for my question. Particularly the words in verse 20 " He who dies at 100 will be thought a mere youth."

Verses 17-19 make it clear the text is talking about the New heaven and new earth God will create after the former one is passed away.

Death was one of the things the cross vanquished, yet the text says men will live much longer, yet die.

This ties in with an original question I had concerning the need for reproduction before sin. "If" men had never sinned we would still have reproduced physically correct? 

It would appear there is a cyclical life/death even after the new heaven and earth are formed. This would likely be a re establishment of the plan God intended before the fall of man. One can only guess how that would work. If men live longer, then there will be more men on the earth or elsewhere. If men still die where do their souls go after that? 

Or is the text somehow maligned through translation? If people die at 100 they will be considered accursed. This would imply there is a life system based on behavior where God can "curse" someone in the new earth and they will die earlier. 

I was always taught we live forever after we die in Christ.

Christians who go into the 1000 year millennium will be mortal. They will be able to marry and have children. Unlike those who were raptured before the 7 year tribulation and those in heaven who have glorified resurrected bodies. Although those in the 1000 year millennium will be able to sin. Many will come against God at the end of the 1000 year millenium. All those who go into eternity which is the new heaven and the new earth will all have glorfied resurrected bodies. No one will be able to sin.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Isaiah 51:6 (ASV) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath; for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment; and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:

 

Quote

but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

This part of Isaias 51:6: is about Jesus Christ starting from his sacrifice on the Cross .

Then he can say: "my Salvation will be forever " and " my righteousness shall not be abolished ". 

We have been living or the people have been living within that time ever since, beginning with the disciples of Jesus Christ.  

 

[Who me]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

Death was one of the things the cross vanquished, yet the text says men will live much longer, yet die.

The bible progressively reveals God plan of salvation and in the O T heaven is portrayed in earthly terms of wealth and long life.

[Starise]

Thanks for comments. To be clear I am not doubting our eternal life or the fact that the present heavens ( planets, stars) and earth will be rebuilt or replaced by God Himself.

As a side note- When Jesus was resurrected he was eating with the disciples. He had a kind of super physical body that showed the marks of his injuries during His crucifixion, yet he could do everything humans do and a whole lot more.

The Bible says we will have new resurrected bodies like Christ has. That means we can eat among other things in the physical realm. 

The idea that the text isn't a concrete idea seems to be contrary to the rest of the text. These are probably literal explanations.

I hear Missmuffet say there are two groups of people. One group is still here while the other group is in heaven. I am aware of the 1000 year reign. This makes it seem there are in essence two paradise locations. The new heaven and earth are one and the other spiritual "heaven" is the other. Often heaven is taught as being " up there" somewhere. This idea isn't really much different than the present other than people will be in some sort of a perfected state on an improved earth. Yet we are told all will be destroyed here.

The singular New Jerusalem seems a more solid explanation. Why would we not be in it? 

Assuming we have this idea solidified, the original question still prevails. Otherwise the " New Jerusalem" only lasts for 1000 years and we aren't in it.

I see the New Jerusalem as God's permanent answer to this present world. The 1000 years seems to be a trial period for mankind once again. If men live as they did in Adam's time this might only be one generation.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Starise

[Marilyn C]

Hi Starise,

Good to clarify that scripture. Now God is giving His final solution -the New heavens and new earth, however He then says what will come just before that -

`...BUT be glad & rejoice for ever in what I create: for behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing....` (Isa. 65: 18)

We know by reading ALL of scripture how this will all work out - millennium for God`s time purpose through Israel, ruling over the nations, and then the NHNE, eternity. 

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

On 1/1/2021 at 5:17 AM, missmuffet said:

Christians who go into the 1000 year millennium will be mortal. They will be able to marry and have children. Unlike those who were raptured before the 7 year tribulation and those in heaven who have glorified resurrected bodies. Although those in the 1000 year millennium will be able to sin. Many will come against God at the end of the 1000 year millenium. All those who go into eternity which is the new heaven and the new earth will all have glorfied resurrected bodies. No one will be able to sin.

Hi missmuffet,

There will be NO Christians in the millennium, for all have gone to be with the Lord in the rapture. Any others who come to believe after that are God fearing and looking for Israel`s Messiah to come and rule the world.

Marilyn.

 

[JohnR7]

On 12/31/2020 at 10:41 AM, Starise said:

Verses 17-19 make it clear the text is talking about the New heaven and new earth God will create after the former one is passed away.

This is a reference to the 1,000 year reign of Christ when people will live out their full 120 years of life. (Genesis 6:3) 

[Starise]

Thank you for comments all.

I'm going to try to recap what I think I've read here.......I might change this view with more knowledge on the subject. Also realize that I'm filling in some of the gaps I see unanswered.

In a condensation of the explanation, I intentionally left out long lists of scriptures. I'm going to present it more like  what technicians call a "sequence of operation chart".. Scriptures can be searched to support what I'm getting at.

In the beginning of the end times there will be three and maybe four groups of people alive at the time. Those who totally ignore/reject Christ and have no excuse. These all fall under one group. The next group-  Christians who are saved and diligent. Another group- Christians who are saved and lax. Worldly Christians. The Lots of the earth. The foolish virgins. Depending on your belief here the 144,000 mentioned that will be saved during these end times are either Jews, those foolish Christians...or both. My Baptist background always taught it was Jews who came to the Lord after they realized Jesus was the true messiah. God especially sets aside and protects these people.

So far as I know, when the whole thing is over none of these people remain on the earth. Everyone goes somewhere that isn't here. From my understanding the entire earth is incinerated. In fact some scripture makes the future post Armageddon earth look like what Mars looks like now. The atmosphere will be gone as will water. 

In contrast, the New Jerusalem is lit by God's own glory and water is there...and this is where it gets slightly fuzzy for me. A new earth is not a rebuilt earth or so it seems. God's people are moving to another apartment somewhere else or rather the apartment is moved to the earth. 

So then the millennium is somehow people who  somehow managed to stay on the earth in physical form with improvements made to their bodies. These people if not new creations have been modified by God to live longer. Or they are new creations apart from those of us already with the Lord.

None of this feels like a solid understanding of it to me personally. I still don't see how we have people alive on earth in better physical bodies( who die) when there was supposed to have been an event that took us all away. Who are these people and where do they come from?