Why we observed Sunday as the Sabbath?

[wordsower]

Yod,

Can I ask a sincere question?

Who really observes the Jewish Sabbath as it was commanded, with no travelling, carrying, spitting, leaving the tent, etc........? If you observe it without all of the bondage, is that really observing it? And then, what exactly is the point? The bondage part of it was intended to be bondage. That was part of the plan. What was the purpose for the Sabbath?

[Guest yod]

No yod, your argument is not with me, your argument is with Jesus. Your fail to

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Who really observes the Jewish Sabbath as it was commanded, with no travelling, carrying, spitting, leaving the tent, etc........? If you observe it without all of the bondage, is that really observing it? And then, what exactly is the point? The bondage part of it was intended to be bondage. That was part of the plan. What was the purpose for the Sabbath?

So unless the Sabbath is a burden, then it has no value? God did not, has not, and will not, put people under bondage. You think God brought the children of Israel out of bondage to put them back in bondage? The Sabbath has never been a source of bondage. It was the traditions added to it that put people under bondage. Maybe the SDA made the Sabbath a burden, but GOD never did.

The purpose according to Scripture is that it would be a memorial of Creation...

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

and a memorial of the exodus from Egypt...

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

The Sabbath being connected with the exodus connects the Sabbath with freedom NOT bondage. The Sabbath is a picture of freedom.

[wordsower]

Shiloh,

My question was sincere and I'd appreciate a sincere answer.

I realize that it is not burdensome for you because you don't have to sit in your tent all day and eat manna.

No mixing wool and linen, no building fires on the Sabbath, sacrificing animals daily for sins, cleasing rituals, etc...........yes, the law was burdensome if it was kept to the letter.

My question is, if it is not kept to the letter, what is the point?

Yod?

[Guest shiloh357]

No mixing wool and linen, no building fires on the Sabbath, sacrificing animals daily for sins, cleasing rituals, etc...........yes, the law was burdensome if it was kept to the letter.

What I think needs to be pointed out is that "burdensome" is a relative term.

Those things are perceived as burdens to YOU because you are not accustomed to to living that way. If you were raised in that environment, then you would not have anything to measure it against, and it would not be "burdensome," it would be just daily life as an Israelite.

I would consider farm living, with no airconditioning and getting up at 3:am every morning to milk cows as burdensome, but your average farmer thinks nothing of it. It just normal to him.

Why don't you demonstrate HOW resting on the Sabbath is a burden? Doing NO work is more burdensome than doing work?

The problem with most Christians and their perspectives on the Torah is that they are not based on personal experience (Sorry, SDA does not count as legitimate Sabbath observance. They are legalists, and do not observe the Sabbath as instructed in Torah).

It is based upon what they have been told. Christians are TOLD that Sabbath and other aspects of the Torah are bondage, and that is what they have been conditioned to believe.

God has never put people under bondage. At no time in Scripture does the Bible EVER describe the Torah as bondage. YOU describe it that way, but God does not.

What God describes as bondage is the added traditions and laws of men that perverted the observance of Torah in a system of works-based righteousness. It is when men perverted the Torah into a means of earning God's favor, that the burdens came in.

You are STILL confusing Torah observance with legalism. For whatever reason, you refuse to make the distinction and that is unfortunate.

My question is, if it is not kept to the letter, what is the point?

No, your question originally was:

If you observe it without all of the bondage, is that really observing it? And then, what exactly is the point?

Your question reveals a lack of understanding about the Torah, and God's purpose for it. You presume that God gave the Torah to be a source of bondage, even though you have not one legitimate source of Scriptural proof of that. In fact, the Bible says exactly the opposite about the Torah.

You have a the wrong assumption that if you observe the Sabbath and enjoy it, then are not doing it right. That is nonsense.

[wordsower]

Shiloh,

Read and try to understand:(I borrowed some of this from something a friend wrote long ago because I couldn't say it better myself)

Resting on a particular day is not a bad thing. When a person has been an Adventist, however, the Sabbath will always have a different meaning than it does for most other people, even if they say it's not necessary for salvation.

Paul said he could eat anything, even meat offered to idols, because he knew the idols were nothing. But he said that when a person was accustomed to idols, meat offered to idols had a different meaning because their conscience is defiled. (1 Corinthians 8) Also, in Acts 15 the council of Jerusalem said they had only four recommendations for Gentile Christians, "to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality." (Acts 15:29)

The reason the Gentiles were told not to eat meat offered to idols was not that the meat was intrinsically sinful. Rather, the Gentiles had a whole cascade of memories and associations that would come alive if they did certain things associated with their pagan religion, including eating meat offered to idols. That didnt bother Paul; he had never worshiped idols. Ceremonially blessed meat did not affect him in any way. But the Gentiles had reactions hard-wired into their consciences.

Adventists have the same connection to the Sabbath. I realize that I'm speaking rather strongly here, but Adventism does have a demonic spirit aswsociated with it. Because it was founded on a lie with a false prophet and elders who knowingly created doctrines based on her visions instead of strictly on the Bible, because the early Adventists were unrepentant when they set dates for Christ's return, Satan has a claim on the church. It was not founded on the gospel. God is not responsible for deception. Satan has a claim on the church, and the Sabbath has a supernatural hold on Adventists. Because it was the shadow of the coming Messiah, it was a powerful deception for Satan to instill into this entire church. No matter what Adventists say, the Sabbath is deeply ingrained in them in a way they cannot explain. It has a spiritual hold on them.

It becomes first and foremost, far above Jesus or grace or the blood or any good news. The Sabbath is an idol to the Adventist church. They care more about whether or not you watch tv on the Sabbath than your relationship with Christ, as if they knew what that would look like anyways.

I realized I could not observe the day with a new attitude. We had to completely let it go because it is associated with a whole cascade of memories and deep spiritual reactions and associations in an Adventist's or former Adventist's conscience. For those of us who have kept the Sabbath as Adventists, the seventh day must be jettisoned completely. The way it was treated in our past made it part of a spiritual bondage, and we must let it go.

I am sure that people react differently to different things and there is a reason Paul wrote Romans 14. It is quite clear there that your position and mine are both acceptable and we need to both be fully convinced in our own mind.

We are all individuals and individually dealt with by the Holy Spirit according to His purpose.

I just want you to try to see where I come from. I do see where you come from and support you 100%.

We are both gonna see glory!

[Guest shiloh357]

I realized I could not observe the day with a new attitude. We had to completely let it go because it is associated with a whole cascade of memories and deep spiritual reactions and associations in an Adventist's or former Adventist's conscience. For those of us who have kept the Sabbath as Adventists, the seventh day must be jettisoned completely. The way it was treated in our past made it part of a spiritual bondage, and we must let it go.

I understand this Wordsower, but I have only been saying this for the last few months. I can think of several times in other threads where I pointed out that your aversion to the Sabbath is rooted in your SDA past.

That having been said, I understand why you would not or could not keep the Sabbath.

That has no bearing on the validity of the Sabbath. You have been trying to read your aversion towards the Sabbath into the Scriptures. That is not a fair treament of the issue.

[tsth]

Aren't the commandments in action, a fulfillment of love? I mean each one on its own is an outward reflection of love right? Either toward God, or your brother. And all is fulfilled when we accept Christ as Savior and begin to walk according to the Spirit, right? Now, here is my question:

Do you believe the 4th Commandment fits the above description as well? In terms of fulfilling love toward another?

And if so, then how are you fulfilling the 2nd half in love? How do you meet that part? Or do you assume it is no longer valid?

Forgive me for being redundant (wordsower, yod), but just wondering if anyone would address these issues?

Thanks!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[wordsower]

That has no bearing on the validity of the Sabbath. You have been trying to read your aversion towards the Sabbath into the Scriptures. That is not a fair treament of the issue.

Shiloh,

I honestly have not. I was TRYING to show the sunday church people the 7th day Sabbath and God showed me that the rest is in Jesus, not a day. Anyone who does not have Jesus still has just the day but with Jesus, He is all the rest you need, but you may certainly hold to a physical rest.

Paul seemed quite astounded when he said he realized that the law was spiritual!

I think that is the part you are missing, the spirit and truth separated from the natural. Natural will end, spiritual endures. My natural man died with Christ.

Anywho........Suzanne still thinks we don't love people if we eat out on Sunday, regardless of the fact that Sunday isn't the Sabbath, so that seems like a much bigger issue than me resting "Today" in Jesus.

[tsth]

Anywho........Suzanne still thinks we don't love people if we eat out on Sunday, regardless of the fact that Sunday isn't the Sabbath, so that seems like a much bigger issue than me resting "Today" in Jesus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, not exactly wordsower. I think you are negligent of the the love for people and the honoring of God, if you are asking them to be in service to "you" during times when they could be "worshipping" The Lord. It is not about that particular day except for the fact that this happens to be the "current" day when most of America would consider going to worship our God, if they were even able to.

But I've already said that a bajillion times!

In His Love,

Suzanne