Why we observed Sunday as the Sabbath?

November 24, 2004

Evidentally, you do not believe in a literal New Heavens and Earth, or a literal millenium. Fortunately for the truth, they are not spiritualizations,

The Truth is spiritual, for God is a spirit. The physical realm will cease to exist when Christ returns, so there will be nothing to reign on.

Rather, He reigns now. "The kingdom of God comes not with outward observance".

nor are they symbolic,

Yes they are.. that's why Rev 1 tells us they were "sigified".

they are real things that will happen.

Everything happened at the cross. Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as He said He had come to do. 'Real things' are in the spirit: the flesh is not reality ultimately, but is vanity.

This is why we are told: "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God"

Jesus will return back to earth in bodily form according to Acts chapter one, and will establish His kingdom on earth.

He will come back in like manner, not like form.

That earthly kingdom will last for 1,000 years and after the final day,

There is no mention of such an important thing in the epistles. Therefore the one-off mentioning of it in Rev 20 is symbolic.

It also says elsewhere that God owns the cattle on a 1000 hills. I'm sure hill number 1001 is within his property boundaries also.

He will renew Heaven and Earth

He will destroy them completely, forever. (Heb 12:26,27, 2 Pe 3:8-10)

and the New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven to Earth.,

The New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ. Even Revelation tells you this. So the new Jerusalem is here already: it is where Jesus lives: in us.

November 24, 2004

Evidentally, you do not believe in a literal New Heavens and Earth, or a literal millenium. Fortunately for the truth, they are not spiritualizations,
The Truth is spiritual, for God is a spirit. The physical realm will cease to exist when Christ returns, so there will be nothing to reign on.
Rather, He reigns now. "The kingdom of God comes not with outward observance".

nor are they symbolic,
Yes they are.. that's why Rev 1 tells us they were "sigified".

they are real things that will happen.
Everything happened at the cross. Jesus fulfilled the prophets, as He said He had come to do. 'Real things' are in the spirit: the flesh is not reality ultimately, but is vanity.
This is why we are told: "Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God"
That is just Preterism.

Jesus will return back to earth in bodily form according to Acts chapter one, and will establish His kingdom on earth.
He will come back in like manner, not like form.

That earthly kingdom will last for 1,000 years and after the final day,
There is no mention of such an important thing in the epistles. Therefore the one-off mentioning of it in Rev 20 is symbolic.
It also says elsewhere that God owns the cattle on a 1000 hills. I'm sure hill number 1001 is within his property boundaries also.

He will renew Heaven and Earth
He will destroy them completely, forever. (Heb 12:26,27, 2 Pe 3:8-10)

and the New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven to Earth.,
The New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ. Even Revelation tells you this. So the new Jerusalem is here already: it is where Jesus lives: in us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a bunch of Preterism nonsense. You can believe that tripe if you want. I will believe the Bible instead.

November 24, 2004

You mean you will believe what you want to believe, and not what the bible says.

For I have shown you from the bible.

Now note that Jesus told the disciples that all prophecy and the law pointed to Him and Him only (Lk 24:44).

Note also that He had to open "their understanding" in order for them to see this, and not simply point them to the scriptures.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Colossians

JewishHeart · November 24, 2004

Sabbath Encounter

By: Sean and Ayelet Steckbeck

It is the Shabbat again and we are cleaning, shopping, cooking, and showering before the sun goes down. It isn

November 24, 2004

You mean you will believe what you want to believe, and not what the bible says.
For I have shown you from the bible.

Now note that Jesus told the disciples that all prophecy and the law pointed to Him and Him only (Lk 24:44).

Note also that He had to open "their understanding" in order for them to see this, and not simply point them to the scriptures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have shown nothing from the Bible. I am schooled in hermeneutics, and can tell the difference between symbols and literalisms. I can tell the difference between Scriptures that are speaking figuratively, and when they are not. Furthermore, I use the whole Bible, and do not do as you do, and pick ONLY the verses that support what I want, and then disregard the rest of the Bible.

Here is what you said:

and the New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven to Earth.,
The New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ. Even Revelation tells you this. So the new Jerusalem is here already: it is where Jesus lives: in us.

Think so eh? Well lets see what the Bible says about the New Heavens and New Earth, and we'll see just how ridiculous that assertion is.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

It says in verse 4 that God will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, niether shall they be any more pain.

I know plenty of Christians who have died, who have sorrow in their lives. I know plenty of Christians who suffer pain. Look at the Christians in Sudan who are being murdered into extinction. How about the 200 Christians who were either murdered or maimed in Nigeria in 2002 during the Miss World Contest. Look at the 100,000 Timorese Christians slaughtered in Indonesia in the latter part of the 20th century. What about all the underground Christians in China who get caught and tortured to death for their faith? New Heavens and New Earth? Only in your imagination. :taped:

Go and tell all of those Christians that this is the New Heavens and New Earth in which there is no more sorrow, suffering, pain or death. Tell them that this New Heavens and New Earth, and that God has wiped away all tears. You will get laughed into the ground. No fool would believe anything so absurd. You need to read the Bible, and spend less time talking about it.

November 25, 2004

As Gentile believers in Yeshua, let us stop arguing about whether we have to keep the Shabatt and start rejoicing that Yeshua gave us the freedom as the One New Man in Messiah to take place in this glorious day!! As messianics, let us stop nagging the Gentile believers

As Christians, let's understand that there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, and that the OT law is finished with.

November 25, 2004

understand that there is no Jew or Gentile in Christ,

Then why do Jesus, Peter, and Paul continually make this distinction?

1 Corinthians 7:18

Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.

Because the verse doesn't mean we are all the same (like gentiles) yet we are all positionally equal before God.

and that the OT law is finished with.

The Bible does not say that. It is a classic cultural christian concept that forces sections of the Bible to contradict themselves instead of accepting what is really said.

April 6, 2005

re: Sunday

By the end of the 3rd century, Christian communities and their bishops had become a force to contend with, in urban centers especially. Christians were preferred for high government positions; the Church was granted various special privileges; and churches like the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem were constructed. Christian bishops took aggressive public stances that were unknown among other cult leaders, even among the Jews. Proselytism had had to be publicly outlawed, simply to maintain public decorum. In the essential legions, however, Christianity was despised as womanish, and the soldiers followed Mithras and Isis. Since the Roman Emperors ruled by "divine right" and stayed in power through the support of the legions, it was important for them to be seen to support a strong state religion. The contumely of the Christians consisted in their public refusal to participate in official rites that no one deeply believed in, but which were an equivalent of an oath of allegiance. Refusal might easily bring upon all the Roman people the loss of the gods' support; such were the usual justifications for occasional lynchings of Christians by Roman soldiers, the fare of many martyrologies.

Constantine and Licinius' Edict of Milan (313 CE) neither made paganism illegal nor made Christianity a state-sponsored religion. What it did was legalize Christianity, return confiscated Church property, and establish Sunday as a day of worship.

Prior to this, Christians worshipped on Saturday. The move to Sunday fit in well with the Sunday worship of SOl Invictus. If anything, Constantine liked to see things go in an orderly fashion, and this fit the bill.