Literal Swords vs Spiritual Weapons

[Elhanan]

Thanks Blessed - it has been a good discussion - forces me to search the scriptures more diligently as "iron sharpens iron." But most of all I appreciate your discourse sprinkled with courtesy and grace. Peace to you.

[Elhanan]

Hello ninhao, Matt 5:39 refers to turning the other cheek to our enemies. Again, one can take the literal or figurative approach to this passage. I see this passage as being figurative as Jesus is employing hyperbole to get his points across in the sermon on the mount. Why do I think this? Elsewhere in the same passage Jesus says we should gouge out our eye or cut off our hand if they cause us to sin. If I took this passage literally, I'd be blind and limbless by now. Instead Jesus is using hyperbole as a literary device to govern our relationships and emphasize the extent that we should extend ourselves to others and address our underlying motives for doing so. Furthermore, if Jesus meant his words to be taken literally, then Jesus would have most certainly have followed his own advice. In Jn 18:22-23, we see that after his apprehension, Jesus is slapped in the face by his captor. Does he then turn his other cheek and offer it to be slapped as well? These verses record that he did not do that and instead he gave a verbal retort.

Thankyou for your assessment regarding Matthew 5:39.

Could you now give your opinion on Matthew 10:28 thank you. There appears to be a contradiction between this scripture and using deadly force.

Could you please be more specific in your question or the contradiction ninhao as I'm not sure how this verse relates to the topic/discussion. thanks

[Guest ninhao]

Hello ninhao, Matt 5:39 refers to turning the other cheek to our enemies. Again, one can take the literal or figurative approach to this passage. I see this passage as being figurative as Jesus is employing hyperbole to get his points across in the sermon on the mount. Why do I think this? Elsewhere in the same passage Jesus says we should gouge out our eye or cut off our hand if they cause us to sin. If I took this passage literally, I'd be blind and limbless by now. Instead Jesus is using hyperbole as a literary device to govern our relationships and emphasize the extent that we should extend ourselves to others and address our underlying motives for doing so. Furthermore, if Jesus meant his words to be taken literally, then Jesus would have most certainly have followed his own advice. In Jn 18:22-23, we see that after his apprehension, Jesus is slapped in the face by his captor. Does he then turn his other cheek and offer it to be slapped as well? These verses record that he did not do that and instead he gave a verbal retort.

Thankyou for your assessment regarding Matthew 5:39.

Could you now give your opinion on Matthew 10:28 thank you. There appears to be a contradiction between this scripture and using deadly force.

Could you please be more specific in your question or the contradiction ninhao as I'm not sure how this verse relates to the topic/discussion. thanks

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This indicates we should not be alarmed when someone threatens our physical life. By reacting to threats with deadly force we become alarmed and protect our physical life with the very thing we are told not to fear. Fighting to stay alive seems redundant really and taking life to save your own seems doubly ironic ?

[Elhanan]

Hello ninhao, Matt 5:39 refers to turning the other cheek to our enemies. Again, one can take the literal or figurative approach to this passage. I see this passage as being figurative as Jesus is employing hyperbole to get his points across in the sermon on the mount. Why do I think this? Elsewhere in the same passage Jesus says we should gouge out our eye or cut off our hand if they cause us to sin. If I took this passage literally, I'd be blind and limbless by now. Instead Jesus is using hyperbole as a literary device to govern our relationships and emphasize the extent that we should extend ourselves to others and address our underlying motives for doing so. Furthermore, if Jesus meant his words to be taken literally, then Jesus would have most certainly have followed his own advice. In Jn 18:22-23, we see that after his apprehension, Jesus is slapped in the face by his captor. Does he then turn his other cheek and offer it to be slapped as well? These verses record that he did not do that and instead he gave a verbal retort.

Thankyou for your assessment regarding Matthew 5:39.

Could you now give your opinion on Matthew 10:28 thank you. There appears to be a contradiction between this scripture and using deadly force.

Could you please be more specific in your question or the contradiction ninhao as I'm not sure how this verse relates to the topic/discussion. thanks

I

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This indicates we should not be alarmed when someone threatens our physical life. By reacting to threats with deadly force we become alarmed and protect our physical life with the very thing we are told not to fear. Fighting to stay alive seems redundant really and taking life to save your own seems doubly ironic ?

Far be it for me to tell you how to react if you were confronted with such a situation as you describe but I don't think this passage is talking about self defense. If you look at the context Jesus does tell his disciples to not be afraid but notice what he also says in the preceding verse: "What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs." I think Jesus' point is to not be afraid to "speak" and "proclaim" the gospel message in the face of threats and intimidation from mere men. In v. 32 he also warns his disciples not to disown Him or deny Him no matter what may happen to them. If anything, I think the message is persevering in the faith and remaining faithful to our Lord no matter what might befall us as we are to fear/respect God more than men. Edited April 11, 2013 by Elhanan

[xero]

Irony is the sword of God healed the wound that Peter made with a literal sword.

[BlessedByTheBest]

Irony is the sword of God healed the wound that Peter made with a literal sword.

[enoob57]

I will answer your last question though: "I will ask you this- if perfect love is perfect obedience to Jesus and that obedience is to die to one's self... what exactly is there to defend?" The short answer: DEFEND OTHERS. Jesus said: "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." (Jn 15:12-13) You can engage in all the spiritual warfare praying you like but dying to oneself does mean that there may be times when we choose to take action to save the lives of others even at the expense of our own lives.

I am settled with the stand in my heart with The Lord in this! As this peace the Lord has given me is my reality I do not seek others to stand with me

because they won't be there when I stand soley before Him to account for myself... It is very clear to me what Christ is wanting from me

Col 3:1-2

3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is,

sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth

NKJV

disobedience would be to focus upon this life and satan knows this so if satan can send his

demons against us with sword and gun and we with sword and and gun prepare defense

where is our focus... certainly not here

1 Peter 2:18-21

18 Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the harsh.

19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.

20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good

and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21 For to this you were called, because

Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

NKJV

This is why we don't fear for our lives now-> they are going to end anyway

but the life that goes on will have need to give an account for itself according to all God has

said to us! Love, Steven

[Elhanan]

good for you Steven - since you believe the Lord has spoken to you personally about this then so be it.

[enoob57]

good for you Steven - since you believe the Lord has spoken to you personally about this then so be it.

that's why God has written His Word to us... so we don't need specialized treatment as such...

It is all written down friend... just be willing to die to yourself and follow the instructions

Love, Steven