wingnut- Posted April 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 28, 2013 So to say that Michael is the Restrainer; or to say the the Holy Spirit is the Restrainer; toss up - for neither are referenced in 2 Thes as the Restrainer. In Daniel 12, At that time; Michael is referenced as Israels protector will arise. Does not say he is taken out of the way. In Christ Montana Marv You are correct, but if you notice what time it is in Daniel 12, it's time to lock the devil up for a thousand years, this is just prior to the first resurrection. So where has Michael been? While I may well be wrong about Michaels role, I still don't see the Holy Spirit as a candidate, based on my previous reasons. If the restrainer were part of the Trinity, I would be more apt to see God the Father in that role. Counselor or comforter do not equal restrainer in my book. What else I find curious is why Paul would hesitate to say Holy Spirit, I mean, he does in other areas. I edited my previous post but you had already replied, do you think the addition could account for a plausible reason why Paul would not mention angels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Well, I hate to plug my video on the topic of the restrainer (not really, if I did not want it to be seen, I would not have posted it). I do not think it makes a convincing case the the restrainer is Michael, and it is a long way from proving it. However, since Montana Marv says it is a toss up, I thought I would mention the video, because I believe it demonstrates that is is not a tossup, if one wants to count biblical evidence (too strong a word perhaps). It gives many reasons for thinking it might be Michael, I think quite a few more that one could produce for the Holy Spirit being the restrainer. You can or there is also a written version for those that would prefer to read that to watch. However, I feel obligated to point out, that this thread is not about that, but about the 144,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guysmith Posted May 21, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/28/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted May 21, 2013 The 144,000 mentioned in Rev 7:1-8 and Rev 14:1-5. Where did the belief that these 144,000 evangelize the world during the 70th week. It is not in Scripture. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 16, 2013 The 144,000 have two purposes. 1. To follow the Lamb  and 2. To sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the 24 elders which only the 144,000 know. This is a scene in Heaven and not on earth.  In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guysmith Posted June 16, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 34 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/28/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted June 16, 2013 I would like to suggest that the 144k will be the only (male) believers that will be alive at Christ advent. Â In Yehoshua, Guy Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevelationWriter Posted July 2, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 608 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 283 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2013 - Jesus told The Apostles that In The Regeneration they wouldsit with Him on 12 Thrones Judging The 12 Tribes Of Israel.- Matt.19:28 - Rev.20:4The 144,000 Of All The Tribes Of The Children Of Israelwho'll follow The Lamb wherever He goes? - Rev.14Will be The Israel that The 12 Apostles of The Lambwill Judge for in the 1,000 yr reign of The Regeneration.- Rev.20Their a part of The Governmentto be upon His shoulders of The Davidic Kingdom. - Is.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted July 2, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 2, 2013 Matthew 10: 21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. 23 “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.  According to these verses, at the time when Jesus returns, those sharing the gospel will not have completed going thru all of the cities of Israel. If Jesus returns at the end of the 7 years, that means there will be people who are sharing the gospel in Israel up until the end. 144,000 Jewish believers in Jesus, not every city in Israel has heard the gospel, and some think the 144000 will not be sharing the gospel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted July 16, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) We know that the 144,000 are Jewish, we know they are sealed. We do not know if they evanglize (pure spculation) The earth and the seas are harmed by the first 4 trumpets. Their being sealed occured just before this. Rev 7:3. So all of the Seals judgements have past. I would put this sealing event well into the last 3 1/2 years. Well after the martyres of the 5th Seal. They would be part of the nation of Israel who fled into the wilderness to be protected by God. Their sealing took place there. Again Scripture only gives two functions; Following the Lamb, and singing a new song before the throne.... Both of these occur during the 1,000 years. In Christ Montana Marv I agree with you, it is only theory, not backed up by scripture. We can only GUESS. One question: WHY were they not snatched away in the rapture that took place just before they were sealed? My guess is that it was the rapture that GOT then turned on to Jesus! They suddenly realized that Jesus WAS and IS the Messiah. AGain, only a guess, for it is not written. WIll they testify for Jesus? OF COURSE they will, for that is what all believers in Christ do! But it is not written.  The great crowd is NOT RELATED to them, only in timing. They are sealed right afte the rapture has taken the bride to heaven. They are seen in heaven AT THE SAME TIME they are sealed.  Marv, your timing is way off! The midpoint chapters are 11-14, and this is in chapter 7. It is 3 1/2 years + before the abomination that splits the week. The 70th week officially begins at the 7th seal and officially ends with the 7th vial. It is "marked" by the 7's.  The seals are NOT A PART of the 70th week. Notice the timing of Jesus getting the scroll: it is the very moment He ascended into the throne room and the Holy Spirit was sent down. This sents the time of the first seal to 32 AD. The first seal is the church sent out to make disciples of all nations. Lamad Edited July 16, 2013 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdclmn72 Posted June 9, 2023 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 26 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/14/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted June 9, 2023 They are described as not being defiled by women. The sons of Eli despised the offerings and slept with the women that kept watch over the sanctuary. They were priests. Priests officiate the sacrifices, teach the word and deal with lepers. The law describes believers as priests and rulers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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