A question of ethics

[Guest LadyC]

ok, so.... so why exactly is your tone to me so condescending? i wasn't trying to pick a fight, and i wasn't speaking to you in the tone that you spoke back. i didn't deserve that.

you were speaking of food stamps, yes. we all were. BUT, you said that people shouldn't be allowed to buy name brand or expensive foods with them. THAT is what i was addressing. i'm sure that you're not the one to do the household shopping most of the time, so perhaps you aren't aware that frequently you can buy the name brands for the same price or even cheaper than the generics, because of sales and coupons. buying generic isn't always wise money management. price comparison is. and perhaps i was jumping to conclusions, but i was assuming that "expensive foods" included better quality cuts of meat. those can also be had for a fraction of their normal price, sometimes even cheaper than ground hamburger meat, if you watch the sales and reduced-for-quick-sale bins. that's how i shop... i'm not on food stamps, but i'm on a very strict budget. that doesn't mean we eat ramen noodles and hot dogs every night.

i'm sorry you felt the need to get so defensive that you came across as hatefully as you did. i was hoping by sharing the story of one woman's attitude towards poor people and her opinion of what they deserved, you would recognize that sometimes there is more to things than meets the eye, and our opinions may be inaccurate. such is the case with the food pantry figurehead who believed poor people coming for assistance from the church did not deserve to eat well, even though it was cost efficient. and so is your opinion just as inaccurate that poor people coming to the government for assistance do not deserve to eat things that are generally considered expensive. the issue i was addressing was preconceived notions (attitudes, opinions, judgmentalism), NOT food pantries vs. food stamps. i apologize for not making my point a little more clear.

in any case, i agree the churches are failing in their responsibility to care for those in need. part of that is the lack of tithing going on. part of that is the mis-use of the tithes that do come in. and there is a lot of mis-use and even abuse by many churches, but that's a whole different topic indeed.

[Guest LadyC]

oh, and while i'm at it, i've only lived in two states during my adult life... texas and nevada. in THOSE states i certainly never saw any restaurant that allowed foodstamps, because to do so was illegal. if you happen to reside in a state that does not forbid the purchase of cooked meals, please share that information. it was my understanding that it was illegal in every state to use food stamps in that way, since the food stamps are federally funded despite being state distributed.

[Guest LadyC]

i decided to investigate the restaurants thing a little further. yes indeed, some restaurants do (legally) allow the use of food stamps.

BUT... remember when i said there is sometimes more to something than meets the eye?

here's what i now have learned about restaurants and food stamps. only eligible individuals who are registered within that state are allowed to use their food stamps at participating restaurants (and most restaurants don't.)

those who qualify for that program may include:

homeless people

elderly people

disabled people

in other words, it is limited only to those people who have no means to properly store and prepare their own food.

this program is only available in four states. arizona, california, florida, and michigan.

i actually think such a program should be available, at least to homeless people, in all states.

[ncn]

What is most disturbing is the thought that the government will give you food stamps, but you don't have the liberty to be responsible enough to manage it, within the right intentions, on your own.

I think God cares about our hearts and intentions. Tripping over technicalities and living life tied in knots with guilt over things that are "in the spirit of the rules" scares me. He who the Son sets free is free indeed. Not even the government is going to be this legalistic about food use.

Seriously guys, what about all the people on food stamps on this very forum. Do we all realise the pressure we put on them to be so legalistic that they can't even give their food to a child or offer a biscuit to a guest? That stinks.

I agree, in fact this thread makes me sad.

I think about all those that struggle to make ends meet,

to put food on the table and live on food stamps or any form of benefits.

The single parent, the disabled, the elderly and anyone in need.

It must be so heart breaking for them to read a thread like this.

If their heart leads them to share what they have, then so be it.

I'd rather live in a world where we share food.

When I was homeless people would give me food and money.

They never said how I should use it.

When I had too much, be it food or money; I would share it with other homeless people.

Was that wrong? Was the intention of those that gave those things to me only for my use?

If the answer is yes, then I can tell you I would still do it!

God bless all those that do not go hungry because they receive some form of benefit.

If they wish to share what little they have don't ask me to stop them.

[Guest]

So if I'm on food stamps, and a friend comes around, I'm not allowed to offer a teaspoon of (purchased with foodstamps) instant coffee in hot water to my friend?

If I'm on food stamps, I can't voluntarily go hungry and offer the meal I avoided to someone else?

Are ya'll for real???

:24:

[nebula]

OK, I am trying to find the actual rules given with food stamps that may address this issue.

Ah - found something!

Pumpkins, Holiday Gift Baskets, and Special Occasion Cakes

Pumpkins are edible and eligible for purchase with SNAP benefits. However, inedible gourds and pumpkins that are used solely for ornamental purposes are not eligible items.

Gift baskets that contain both food and non-food items, are not eligible for purchase with SNAP benefits if the value of the non-food items exceeds 50 percent of the purchase price.

To read our most recent notice about Gift Baskets, click here.

Items such as birthday and other special occasion cakes are eligible for purchase with SNAP benefits as long as the value of non-edible decorations does not exceed 50 percent of the purchase price of the cake

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/retailers/eligible.htm

[Guest LadyC]

not sure how that addresses bake sales though, neb that's basically saying what a person is allowed to purchase, not what they're allowed to do with it.

[The_Patriot21]

ok, so.... so why exactly is your tone to me so condescending? i wasn't trying to pick a fight, and i wasn't speaking to you in the tone that you spoke back. i didn't deserve that.

you were speaking of food stamps, yes. we all were. BUT, you said that people shouldn't be allowed to buy name brand or expensive foods with them. THAT is what i was addressing. i'm sure that you're not the one to do the household shopping most of the time, so perhaps you aren't aware that frequently you can buy the name brands for the same price or even cheaper than the generics, because of sales and coupons. buying generic isn't always wise money management. price comparison is. and perhaps i was jumping to conclusions, but i was assuming that "expensive foods" included better quality cuts of meat. those can also be had for a fraction of their normal price, sometimes even cheaper than ground hamburger meat, if you watch the sales and reduced-for-quick-sale bins. that's how i shop... i'm not on food stamps, but i'm on a very strict budget. that doesn't mean we eat ramen noodles and hot dogs every night.

i'm sorry you felt the need to get so defensive that you came across as hatefully as you did. i was hoping by sharing the story of one woman's attitude towards poor people and her opinion of what they deserved, you would recognize that sometimes there is more to things than meets the eye, and our opinions may be inaccurate. such is the case with the food pantry figurehead who believed poor people coming for assistance from the church did not deserve to eat well, even though it was cost efficient. and so is your opinion just as inaccurate that poor people coming to the government for assistance do not deserve to eat things that are generally considered expensive. the issue i was addressing was preconceived notions (attitudes, opinions, judgmentalism), NOT food pantries vs. food stamps. i apologize for not making my point a little more clear.

in any case, i agree the churches are failing in their responsibility to care for those in need. part of that is the lack of tithing going on. part of that is the mis-use of the tithes that do come in. and there is a lot of mis-use and even abuse by many churches, but that's a whole different topic indeed.

First off, I apologize if I came across as condescending-that was not my intent, your big brother comment kind of erked me, and in my experience when someone says theyre not trying to pick a fight, its usually the opposite, and even so I wasnt trying to come across as rude or condescending-It was a rushed reply on my cell phone during a break at work, and I didn't realize I was coming across that way. I was merely pointing out, that in many states, food stamps were accepted at some restaurants, and while yes, sometimes you can get name brand stuff cheaper and on sale, and with coupons-but on the whole, the generic, is cheaper. And you make a good point about coupons, but honestly, how many people who are on food stamps, are knoweldgeable about how to use and watch for sales and coupons and the like? My point is, I feel food stamps, like welfare, has turned into an entitlement-and not something beneficial to the person. Thats not saying that everyone on them is abusing the sytem and are evil, there are people out there that have a genuine need for food stamps, Im not discounting that at all-but I think there is a LOT of abuse of the system, and a lot of people are on food stamps, not because they are incapable of working or finding a job, but because of poor money management and bad life decisions, and food stamps are just enabling that lifestyle. Maybe, if there was a system that taught them how to use coupons and the like, I wouldnt be opposed to name brand foods and the like on there, but when a person on food stamps, is eating better then someone who works 60+ hours a week, I think theres an issue with the system.

When it comes to meat, however, I hold a slightly different principle. Meat is healthy, and filling, and Im not opposed to their being chicken, beef, and the like being allowed for people on food stamps. Especially beef, which is high in protein, Im not even opposed to some seafood-granted, I dont think they should be able to get the top brand name T-bone and lobster, but meat should definetly be on the menu, to deny someone meat and sticking them with tuna is punishing them for being poor-not helping. Im for wise food management, and wise money management, and teaching others how to do it. Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and he will eat for a lifetime.

I hope Ive cleared my position up some, and again I apologize if I offended you, it was not my intent.

[Guest LadyC]

much clearer, thank you. i agree with a lot of what you say, and i'm glad you're not opposed to meats! and while i still wholeheartedly disagree that the government has any business telling people what brands they can buy on food stamps (they DO do that on WIC, however), i would totally be in favor of mandatory money management and shopping classes for those on food stamps before becoming certified, and again at each recertification. especially in states that have large numbers of mexican supermarkets... i ate really well in vegas compared to here. fresh produce and meats were a fraction of the price at the "american" grocery stores. seriously cheaper. i regularly picked up ten pound bags of potatoes for a buck... pineapples for a buck per pound. crazy low prices. compare that to here, where a five pound bag of taters costs about $4, and pineapple rarely goes below $3/lb.

i don't think most people eat better on food stamps than a person who works though. especially if they aren't shopping frugally. they may have one or two meals better than the average person, but if they splurge like that regularly they'd end up starving because they'd run out of food stamps too quickly.

i don't know if you saw my post where i'd googled the restaurant thing or not. if you didn't, here's a recap. only four states allow that to occur at participating restaurants... and not many restaurants participate in the program. the program is eligible to those on food stamps who are elderly, disabled, or homeless, and lack the ability to store and/or prepare food for themselves. does that information change your opinion of the restaurant thing? it did mine.

anyway, yes, the entitlement attitude runs rampant... not just among welfare recipients, but among so many other groups of people that it makes me want to puke.

[Guest man]

I dont think they should be able to get the top brand name T-bone and lobster,

Why?