Sure God heals, will He also cause sickness, do I have this wrong?

[Guest]

I was reading a thread where one person opined that God does not cause sickness, that things like heart attacks just happen with age. I did not interject a different opinion, as it might have diverted the threads actual topic, which was not a discussion of the theology of sickness or God's role in things we consider unpleasant. In any case, my mind jumped to the question, is it true that God does not cause sickness?

A number of passages came to my mind in vague terms, so I looked them up to see them anew. The first that came to my mind was Exodus 4:11:

The LORD said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

while on that same page I noticed this:

Exodus 4: 6 The LORD furthermore said to him, "Now put your hand into your bosom." So he put his hand into his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.

and thinking of Moses, I recalled Num 12: 9 :

So the anger of the LORD burned against them and He departed. 10 But when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow.

Now, we might come up with the idea that these leprosy one are exceptions and I would agree, these were special cases for special purposes. Still, if this is not God causing them who is?

I know that some will say ( at least to themselves if not here on the forums) : "but that was the old testament God, He got angry a lot, but He mellowed out for the New Testament". So let's go there:

In the book of acts (you porbably know the story, if not, look it up) we see:

acts 5:4 Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last . . .

... Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well." 10And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

Now I know this is not sickness, it is only death after all, and it doesn't say that God did it, but I doubt Peter did it either, do we just suppose it was a coincidence that they died? Since they wern't sick, let's look elswhere:

1 cor 11

28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number have died.

Again, I know you sharp theological lawyers can point out it does not say God did it, moving on . . .

john 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I don't know how you understand that, but that sounds to me like God had this man born blind, to serve His puropses, and why not, after all, Pauls points out in Romans 9:

The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

This last one is not an example of God making people ill, malformed, or killing them, it is about His sovereignty His absolute right to do with His creation, just as He pleases, and not have to answer to His creation for His actions. If God does these things, He does them for His reasons, His righteius reasons, and whether we like them or not, they are good.

You know, when a child does something wrong, really wrong, it is not uncommon for the mother to go into a state of denial. "Oh, my Johnny would never do anything like that, he is a good boy. A man commits some greivous sin, a serious crime, often those who know him do not believe it, they want for him to be innocent, but they have never really known him as he is sometimes, they just see one side of him. Sometimes a woman willk marry a man, all her friends warned her about him, that he is not right for her, there is something about him that they can see, that is not good, but she is blinded by her love for him, often to regret it once she gets to know him in marriage.

If these cases are true in human relationships, how much more true is it when we want to come to God's defense when He is accused of wrongdoing? The problem is not in us wanting to defend Him, it is that we refuse to see Him as He is, and we remake Him into a God of how we think he ought to be. It is not that we are wrong to defend Him, it is that we are wrong to think of what he does, as wrong, not matter how it appears to us. God, is always right, in Him no evil exists.

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just becuase the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

[Guest]

Even Death

But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Genesis 50:20

Turns To Dust In His Nibbs Mouth

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Genesis 3:14

~

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just because the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

~

As I Grow

Rejoice evermore. 1 Thessalonians 5:16

More Feeble With Age And Disease

Pray without ceasing. 1 Thessalonians 5:17

I Thank Jesus

In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1 Thessalonians 5:18

For As The Sickness

He must increase, but I must decrease. John 3:30

Slowly Pours Me Out

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. Job 13:15

I Rejoice

For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Philippians 1:23

And I Am Blessed

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:18

~

For Me

This Is A Timely

And Encouraging Thread Beloved

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24-25

Love, Your Brother Joe

[He giveth more grace]

I posted in here and now it is gone. Probably user error.

[enoob57]

I was reading a thread where one person opined that God does not cause sickness, that things like heart attacks just happen with age. I did not interject a different opinion, as it might have diverted the threads actual topic, which was not a discussion of the theology of sickness or God's role in things we consider unpleasant. In any case, my mind jumped to the question, is it true that God does not cause sickness?

A number of passages came to my mind in vague terms, so I looked them up to see them anew. The first that came to my mind was Exodus 4:11:

The LORD said to him, "Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

I would like to preface this OM with I also have

been interested in the working of The Lord in this! A lot of times I will establish the furthest boundaries The Lord has allowed for us to go- as in all things His Ways always exceed ours now!

By so doing this I have set my limits as to how far I can go with Him and then know where to wait till The Lord takes me further.... Biblical boundaries within this subject:

1. Satan is responsible for all sin as he is the father of it... Jn 8:44

2. The Eternal reality of God 'IS' death and hell is eternally kept by God in His Wrath outside of God's Pleasure... Ezk 18:23; 33:11, Eph 1:9-10, Matt 25:46

3. The separation of the reality of God's eternal wrath and our eternal life is eternal... 1 Cor 15:54-58, Rev 20:11-15

4. The ultimate glory is God's Wrath was poured out upon Himself in The Person of His Son this the eternal binding of separation... Zech 13:7-9,1 Pet 2:24

This leaves us with only this that purpose 'IS' God's pleasure in the friends of the Groom and The Bride as Sovereignty has prepared an eternal place for God's Wrath...

while on that same page I noticed this:

Exodus 4: 6 The LORD furthermore said to him, "Now put your hand into your bosom." So he put his hand into his bosom, and when he took it out, behold, his hand was leprous like snow.

and thinking of Moses, I recalled Num 12: 9 :

So the anger of the LORD burned against them and He departed. 10 But when the cloud had withdrawn from over the tent, behold, Miriam was leprous, as white as snow.

Now, we might come up with the idea that these leprosy one are exceptions and I would agree, these were special cases for special purposes. Still, if this is not God causing them who is?

I know that some will say ( at least to themselves if not here on the forums) : "but that was the old testament God, He got angry a lot, but He mellowed out for the New Testament". So let's go there:

In the book of acts (you porbably know the story, if not, look it up) we see:

acts 5:4 Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last . . .

... Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well." 10And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.

Now I know this is not sickness, it is only death after all, and it doesn't say that God did it, but I doubt Peter did it either, do we just suppose it was a coincidence that they died? Since they wern't sick, let's look elswhere:

1 cor 11

28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number have died.

Again, I know you sharp theological lawyers can point out it does not say God did it, moving on . . .

As the boundaries above maintain our place of waiting we know how that

even evil can produce an outcome of God's Good Pleasure outside of God's wrath unto purpose... yet always God has not desired the death of anyone but that they turn from their way and

live...

john 9:2 And His disciples asked Him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

I don't know how you understand that, but that sounds to me like God had this man born blind, to serve His puropses, and why not, after all, Pauls points out in Romans 9:

The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

This last one is not an example of God making people ill, malformed, or killing them, it is about His sovereignty His absolute right to do with His creation, just as He pleases, and not have to answer to His creation for His actions. If God does these things, He does them for His reasons, His righteius reasons, and whether we like them or not, they are good.

You know, when a child does something wrong, really wrong, it is not uncommon for the mother to go into a state of denial. "Oh, my Johnny would never do anything like that, he is a good boy. A man commits some greivous sin, a serious crime, often those who know him do not believe it, they want for him to be innocent, but they have never really known him as he is sometimes, they just see one side of him. Sometimes a woman willk marry a man, all her friends warned her about him, that he is not right for her, there is something about him that they can see, that is not good, but she is blinded by her love for him, often to regret it once she gets to know him in marriage.

If these cases are true in human relationships, how much more true is it when we want to come to God's defense when He is accused of wrongdoing? The problem is not in us wanting to defend Him, it is that we refuse to see Him as He is, and we remake Him into a God of how we think he ought to be. It is not that we are wrong to defend Him, it is that we are wrong to think of what he does, as wrong, not matter how it appears to us. God, is always right, in Him no evil exists.

Now, back to the original comment that got me going in the first place - That God does not do these thing, and illness can come about just becuase the body deteriorates with age . . .

if that is true, and I am not denying that, why is it the case in the first place. Is not the deterioration of aging, a part of the curse, that God placed on the creation in the first place? If so, how can we say, God did not do it? It is o.k. I think that we can say that some things that we do not like, are God's doing, but we mustn't accuse God of wrong doing, just because we do not like that outcome.

Thoughts and comments invited, agreement or contrary opinions, even valid correction would be awesome, so, do I have this all wrong?

The reason why we cannot evaluate God is our incompacities both by sin and beginning .... this truth brings humility to our own exist and causes us

to wait upon The Lord to increase us so we may know Him and the Excellence of His Person. This obedience translates into submission to God for The Who

of Him as we that are born of Him wish to see Him as He 'IS' .... it is why we are now as we are to grow in righteounsness in sanctification of His Word as He

within us Speaks Softly in Still Small Voices! So much so if our attention is in anyway focused upon this world we fail to hear fully and it is a disobedience Col 3:1-17

Love, Steven

[NeedYouLord]

I posted in here and now it is gone. Probably user error.

There are 2 exactly identical threads...It's not user error...I posted on the other one too at first...Still praying about what to post...My my already I've taken a journey through the Bible...Asking God Show me...In The Name of Jesus...and now asking...Which one do I post on? Hahaha

Love you In Him, Kathy

[He giveth more grace]

I posted in here and now it is gone. Probably user error.

There are 2 exactly identical threads...It's not user error...I posted on the other one too at first...Still praying about what to post...My my already I've taken a journey through the Bible...Asking God Show me...In The Name of Jesus...and now asking...Which one do I post on? Hahaha

Love you In Him, Kathy

Graci, Kathy, for clearing that up.

[NeedYouLord]

[gdemoss]

I am the alpha and the omega, he said. He is the uncaused cause. He created all things including the destroyer for his good pleasure. And when he is done he will have put down every enemy including death. One big God showing himself mighty in all things. Not a guy you want to mess around with. People will get ugly over the details but never the less the truth marches on.

[NeedYouLord]

First and foremost I agree with Gary...God Is Who He Is...And There Is No Other...He Is A Rewarder to Those That Diligently Seek Him (Hebrews 11:6) He Is The Author and The Finisher of my faith...He Is Wholly Sovereign and Sits Upon The Throne...Even The Throne of my Life...The Life That He Gave...For His Good Pleasure...

There is so much...Even just getting started with my Study Bible and The New King James that references every verse with every verse that applies to it...My my I've been to the Old Testament and back 2 times over...so with all this...we only know in part and also if anyone has anything to add: Please do...we need each other's perspective...and other's leading and guiding...also one verse that keeps coming to mind even before I start is: Knowing The One True God and The Christ Whom He Sent...I know this is a life long process...and it's wonderful...

The subject as I understand it is: God heals but does He also cause us to get sick? In simple terms the way I've always understood this: The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. and Jesus: I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. John 10:10-It is so very very hard to keep things very very simple...by faith...

I know in the Old Testament there are many examples of God's Wrath...Well before I knew anything about God / before He Made Himself Real To me...In my mind He was nothing but mean...He just destroyed people and it was hard to even want or need Him at all for anything-through my eyes at the time I couldn't imagine The Greatest Love Ever Known To Mankind Coming From Him...but the longer I have had to get to Know Him-Through His Word and Being Indwelled By His Spirit...Oh my...He has a heart, a mind (1 Samuel 2:35), can get provoked to anger for sure (Jeremiah 32:29), has a heart and a soul (Jeremiah 32:41)

and if we don't faint or give up...and if we read the "rest of the story"...I don't even pretend to know the whole story---yet; but if we focus on Him...(side note) That's another reason to keep trudging...or skipping happily down the lane of salvation...Hahaha...Because it's so good...it can get rough-at least it does for me...and no, I haven't been severely persecuted like the pastor in Iran right now...Oh I Pray For Him...but to go through things I don't even have to leave my house!!! and that's the Truth...

So we know God gets angry...Oh boy can He!!! But the rest of the story is after all the deeding of land and the wonderful prayer to God, oh dear, something happened that wasn't supposed to I guess, because there was a little discussion between He and the prophet...as far as I can tell...but...in the end...God was upset because of the children of Israel and the children of Judah have done only evil before Me from their youth. (Jeremiah 32:30) Then He does something: He says He will bring them back from where He drove them in His Anger, Wrath and Fury...I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely!!! (verse 37) Wow...They shall be My people and I will be their God...

This is the miracle of it all...Jeremiah 32:39-42...then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. Yes I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul. For thus says the Lord: Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them. And don't stop there...Hahaha...There are 44 verses in this chapter...and more Chapter's in the Book of Jeremiah...and a Whole Bible to Read...

One thing I'd like to also point out...The Bible is written in such a way that it just Lives!!! Hahaha...God wrote into the future sometimes...Like telling of Jesus coming hundreds of years before He came...Then at times it looks like it's just for that day-but in praying and Seeking His Face He Will Give Revelation...My my...So many times I can apply what I read-into my own life-another words, for me, it is not just a history book for me...so-in short-The Bible for me...Lives and is Alive...Just as my Jesus Is...and that's not the half of it...Hahaha...There is a New Testament that is just as Amazing...but I'm guessing I've written enough for now...

Always Loving you In Him...Opppsss...I have a new saying: Alright I love being sappy...Greetings with a kiss of love...(1 Peter 5:14) and ya wonder why I Love Him!!! And no, I'm not getting in the flesh!!! In The Spirit...

[2404]

God is life, perfect. Life and death (corruption) cannot dwell together, just as light and darkness can not coexist.

We get sick and die because we are in a fallen condition, corruptible flesh.

In the case where things happen such as leprosy God just has to withdraw his hand slightly, leprosy is from an evil spirit.