BlessedByTheBest Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 631 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 but there are counterfeits Gary. forgive me for making this distinction, but i believe it is very important. there is ample room for unregenerate man to be deceived in these spiritual things, and it is of no surprise that satan can appear to be an angel of light in his influence towards those he has been given authority over. everything appearing to be supernatural cannot be accepted if not first examined through the lens of scripture. my situation was similar to yours in that, i was seeking God... but the difference being, i rejected Christ as a possibility in my search and so i was seeking a god of my own making. by God's grace, you were led to grow in faith of His love. by God's grace, i was led to grow cold to His love. both so that we would come to know the glory of His riches and be reconciled. with that said...yes, i believe those who truthfully seek to know God with a repentant heart will find Him, and His Son will soon be revealed to them as the door to that fellowship with the Father. those whom He draws and redeems are His. i was honestly worried until i read that someone came and spoke with you about Christ! i would never claim to know all of God's dealings with men, or attempt to place Him in a box, but the scriptures are in place for good reason. so that we may know Him, and that Word became flesh as a testimony of His love. He scrutinizes the heart, and even the vain prayers of His chosen will remain unanswered.. anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 19, 2013 but there are counterfeits Gary. forgive me for making this distinction, but i believe it is very important. there is ample room for unregenerate man to be deceived in these spiritual things, and it is of no surprise that satan can appear to be an angel of light in his influence towards those he has been given authority over. everything appearing to be supernatural cannot be accepted if not first examined through the lens of scripture. my situation was similar to yours in that, i was seeking God... but the difference being, i rejected Christ as a possibility in my search and so i was seeking a god of my own making. by God's grace, you were led to grow in faith of His love. by God's grace, i was led to grow cold to His love. both so that we would come to know the glory of His riches and be reconciled. with that said...yes, i believe those who truthfully seek to know God with a repentant heart will find Him, and His Son will soon be revealed to them as the door to that fellowship with the Father. those whom He draws and redeems are His. i was honestly worried until i read that someone came and spoke with you about Christ! i would never claim to know all of God's dealings with men, or attempt to place Him in a box, but the scriptures are in place for good reason. so that we may know Him, and that Word became flesh as a testimony of His love. He scrutinizes the heart, and even the vain prayers of His chosen will remain unanswered.. anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. Whether or not a man is led to follow the one true God or some false deity depends upon his heart and Gods leading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 ..... anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. I think your pot needs some new ingredients to stir. Can you explain a process where any pre- Christ person could pray to God and find the foot of the cross; especially a non Jew or Hebrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 ..... anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. I think your pot needs some new ingredients to stir. Can you explain a process where any pre- Christ person could pray to God and find the foot of the cross; especially a non Jew or Hebrew. Is there a connection to the op? I'm wondering because the question is whether or not God hears the prayers of the unsaved? There was no cross in the OT...yet we know God heard. I kinda hope we are not going to have that discussion in this thread too....cause it seemed to go nowhere in the other thread...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 ..... anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. I think your pot needs some new ingredients to stir. Can you explain a process where any pre- Christ person could pray to God and find the foot of the cross; especially a non Jew or Hebrew. Is there a connection to the op? I'm wondering because the question is whether or not God hears the prayers of the unsaved? There was no cross in the OT...yet we know God heard. I kinda hope we are not going to have that discussion in this thread too....cause it seemed to go nowhere in the other thread...... I'm not certain what you mean. The topic here is " Does God answer prayers of the unsaved" My question is " Can you explain a process where any pre- Christ person could pray to God and find the foot of the cross; especially a non Jew or Hebrew." They appear to be related. Remember Christ was the Lamb of God slayed from the foundation of the world so any prayer to the One True God ends at the foot of the Cross don't you think ? Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If you think the discussion concerning OT Saint salvation went nowhere I suggest you reread it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 ummm...the op was not originally about OT saint salvation..it got dragged kicking and screaming in that direction....the original op contained several questions...I did read it. It was exhausting as it just went around and around and around and.....I don't expect agreement which in a kind of paradoxical way explains my disatisfaction with it...anyhows.......this is really not about salvation...but about God hearing the prayers of the unsaved. The original op was KING SAULS POSSESSION.....just a few light years away from what it actually ended up as...but I am a stickler for sticking to the topic....a vice for sure Consider this a speedbump.....but I guess it's already too late... I'm sorry but how does Rev 13:8 tie into the op here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 John 9:31 Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him. I would be careful about which verses you use to to make a doctrine out of. Those words were not spoken by Jesus. They were not even spoken by one the disciples. It was an assumption made by a Jewish man who had just been healed by Jesus and he made that statement to the Jewish leaders who were questioning him about his healing. This not a statement offered by Scripture as a teaching about God, but is simply this man's beliefs based on his upbringing in Judaism. The Bible correctly records his words under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. That does not mean that his words are necessarily doctrinally correct. One is hard pressed to explain why Cornelius's prayers in Acts were heard BEFORE he became a believer if one is to assert that God doesn't hear the prayers of unbelievers. The only prayer that He hears from an unbeliever is the prayer of repentance, prayer is a privilege of the believer. The Lord hears His children who have been made righteous through the Lord Jesus. Sin separates the unbeliever from the Father and He will not hear them. There are exceptions in scripture as we all know ,just as the thief on the cross was not baptised and yet went to paradise with the Lord...Lazarus died twice, while scripture tells us "it is appointed for man to die once and so on. There are exceptions. One cannot come to the Father except through His Son. 1 Peter 3:12 “For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.” Jesus recieved and granted the requests of two Gentiles who were not believers during His earthly ministry (the Syro-Phonecian woman and the centurion). God heard the prayers of Cornelius prior to Cornelius being saved. Cornelius was praying the traditional Jewish afternoon prayers, as he was a partial convert to Judaism. Yet the angel told him his prayers were heard by God. The thief and Lazarus are not adequate examples of exceptions. I think we get far more rigid than God does. The Bible says that God does not hear the prayers of the wicked, but not all sinners fall into the category of "wicked" regarding how the Bible uses that term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 19, 2013 Share Posted May 19, 2013 ummm...the op was not originally about OT saint salvation..it got dragged kicking and screaming in that direction....the original op contained several questions...I did read it. It was exhausting as it just went around and around and around and.....I don't expect agreement which in a kind of paradoxical way explains my disatisfaction with it...anyhows.......this is really not about salvation...but about God hearing the prayers of the unsaved. Consider this a speedbump.....but I guess it's already too late... I'm sorry but how does Rev 13:8 tie into the op here? I agree the OP was not originally about OT saint salvation but preceded into a very profitable, and good spirited discussion in which all parties appeared to have gained. If you expect resolution in threads where all parties agree maybe you won't read many doctrinal posts Ok how does Jesus been slain from the foundation of the world relate to the OP. All prayers made to the One true God are heard by Christ. imo Not all people who prayed to the One True God knew Christ, directly, but they were indeed still praying to Him; even if they are non believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 God hears all prayers, but may not act upon them. If He did not, how would He be Omniscience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlessedByTheBest Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 631 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/24/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2013 Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. Whether or not a man is led to follow the one true God or some false deity depends upon his heart and Gods leading. thank you brother, i believe you have summed it up nicely here. every interaction between God and a soul is a unique and individual case where we can't stamp a standard upon...He is omnipotent. perhaps i am narrow-mindedly looking at this subject because of my experience... perhaps i should remain quiet until i have more fully understood His reasons for allowing it... but i do know this...many will be deceived by those who come in His name, and if i do not adhere to and proclaim the precepts found in His Word concerning the Gospel of salvation, i may find myself complicit in the condemnation of another. forgive me if i am out of bounds, or in error brother... i do believe there is a world's difference between God hearing prayer, and God answering. He hears every prayer, so to answer the OP...yes. i only warn the readers to take heed... to the nature of the responses... and seek not after signs and wonders. for my brothers and sisters in Christ, those signs will follow us. but it is all in our Father's hands.......His sovereignty is beyond what we can comprehend..... please pray for each other, and i weep for the lost almost daily... ..... anyway just to be clear, there is no salvation without the blood of Christ. period. prayers heard, or heard and answered, are all beautiful testimonies to His unending love.. but if they do not lead to the foot of the cross then that sinner is praying to a false god. love to you. I think your pot needs some new ingredients to stir. Can you explain a process where any pre- Christ person could pray to God and find the foot of the cross; especially a non Jew or Hebrew. nin, that question is as broad as the Pacific, and i agree with seven that it is a bit beyond this topic's scope. but i would say that it is case-dependent.. love to you all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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