Born of Water and Spirit by Jack Kelly

[Saint Stev:-0]

Hi I believe he referred to the three witnesses,, the water , the blood , and the spirit

Landers

I agree it's all part of washing away your sins.

[OneLight]

Your statement is false on baptism is not needed. Jesus gave the command in Mark 16:16 be baptized to be saved.

There is no example of infant baptism in the bible. Jesus points out in John 3:5 if a man be born of the water, meaning someone with understanding. We all agree that a baby is not a person capable of receiving this choice.

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So often this verse is is misunderstood. Baptism is a result of being saved, not the avenue of salvation. It it was, Christ would of included baptism in His statement of being dammed. He did not. His words were "but he that believeth not shall be damned" ... no mention of baptism at all.

Your explanation is false. Here's why. Jesus stated he who believes and is baptized is saved. Question. Who states I do not believe in the Gospel but I will be baptized?

No one. So this shows Jesus would not need to repeat the actual word baptism in the second line of Mark 16:16. Why? Being baptized without believing is pointless all on it's own.

You are right. Nobody who does not believe in Christ and accept His salvation would ever want to be baptized. Yet, that does not mean baptism is required for salvation. Man has read this verse, and a few others, and have connected dots that are not there. Otherwise, if what you say is true, then Acts 16:31 is a lie "So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”", along with Romans 10:8-10 "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Baptism is a result of salvation, not the means to salvation.

[Guest ninhao]

I'd like to interject two comments....

First: It seems to me that the context and construction of the conversation recorded in John 3:3-8 gives it's own interpretation:

Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Nicodemus obviously interprets Jesus' words in the first two sentences to mean being born again physically...Nicodemus asks how one can be born physically a second time.

Jesus of course answers: “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (emphasis mine).

This is a comparative statement...and in comparing "born of water" with "born of flesh is flesh"; I can only assume that Jesus is referring to the natural, physical birth of a human being in this portion. ***shrug***

Mcgyver you have made a very solid point. Being born of water is correlated with natural birth here.

[Saint Stev:-0]

Your statement is false on baptism is not needed. Jesus gave the command in Mark 16:16 be baptized to be saved.

There is no example of infant baptism in the bible. Jesus points out in John 3:5 if a man be born of the water, meaning someone with understanding. We all agree that a baby is not a person capable of receiving this choice.

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So often this verse is is misunderstood. Baptism is a result of being saved, not the avenue of salvation. It it was, Christ would of included baptism in His statement of being dammed. He did not. His words were "but he that believeth not shall be damned" ... no mention of baptism at all.

Your explanation is false. Here's why. Jesus stated he who believes and is baptized is saved. Question. Who states I do not believe in the Gospel but I will be baptized?

No one. So this shows Jesus would not need to repeat the actual word baptism in the second line of Mark 16:16. Why? Being baptized without believing is pointless all on it's own.

You are right. Nobody who does not believe in Christ and accept His salvation would ever want to be baptized. Yet, that does not mean baptism is required for salvation. Man has read this verse, and a few others, and have connected dots that are not there. Otherwise, if what you say is true, then Acts 16:31 is a lie "So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”", along with Romans 10:8-10 "But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Baptism is a result of salvation, not the means to salvation.

Lets look at Acts 16:31. Paul obviously knew baptism was a necessity because the whole household got baptized. This proves when Paul says the word believe that it means a summary of salvation.

Acts 16

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Now onto Romans Road to salvation. Romans 10:9 Paul says confess with mouth The Lord Jesus and believe God raised him.

Now lets read verse 10 where Paul elaborates on 10:9.

Romans 10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

What is righteousness? It says to believe unto righteousness.

Merriam Webster defines righteousness - acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin

Key words are Act and law. Law is a command. When Jesus gave a command like Mark 16:16. We need to follow the command if we love Jesus (John 14:5).

So what is the summary here we believe unto righteousness meaning we follow the divine command and we mouth confess meaning repentance.

Also romans 10 was preached to already baptized brothers because Paul starts out in Romans 10:1 saying brethren. Meaning already baptized in Jesus name. How do we know? Read back 4 chapters before in Romans 6:1-8 and Paul explains.

So in the end. You have to be baptized in Jesus name for salvation. : )

[Landers]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

[Saint Stev:-0]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

[Landers]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

that's right there is no example of how water baptism is to be carried out ,you need to understand that baptism is spiritual , it is the Spirit working in you both death and life ,for a believer to be baptised , God must call him first ,when you with your mouth declare the Son of God to be your saviour you are baptised through the holy Spirit , John the baptist said , i baptise with water but there is one coming after me who will baptise with the holy Spirit and fire ,, the thief on the cross was nowhere near any water baptism ,water baptism is a remnant from the old testament time when they needed to ritually purify themselves for all manner of reasons ,, Landers

[Guest luv-ur-neighbor]

greetings all. I agree with you enoc. Everytime Jesus talked bout water it was not literally. Like wen He told the woman of samaria the water He wud give her she wud thirst no more. All the natural things that happened was n exact duplicate of what Jesus come to do spiritualy. Even the fact that the practise of the sabbath we come to find on Christ. For He is our resting place. The Lord of sabbath

[Littlelambseativy]

If there is something that we must do to earn or fulfill our salvation then everything that Jesus did on the cross is of no effect - insufficient not complete. God said that Salvation is a gift, free. If it is free why do we need to do anything to complete it? is what Jesus did on the cross not sufficient? Jesus said it was Done, or do we have to work out our own salvation? I will take the "free gift of Salvation" nothing added nothing subtracted.

I wonder why Jesus never baptized anyone with water only the Holy Spirit? Do you suppose that is of importance?

[Saint Stev:-0]

Born Of Water And The Spirit

Q. I have a question on John 3:5, Jesus was talking about being born of water and of the Spirit. In my Tuesday night Bible study class a question came up asking what this meant. Someone said that Jesus was talking about water baptism but I don’t see that here. Am I way off? What was Jesus really saying in John 3:5?

A. Let’s put John 3:5 -6 together to get a clearer picture of what Jesus was saying:

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Being born of water speaks of our first birth. It’s the natural one where we emerge from our birth waters, the amniotic fluid in which we’ve spent the previous nine months. It’s flesh (our mom) giving birth to flesh (us), when we become the child of our earthly parents.

Being born of the Spirit is the 2nd birth, the supernatural one, where our spirit is knit with God’s. It’s when we are born again, when Spirit gives birth to spirit, and we become a child of God (John 1:12-13).

Good morning , Jesus said , the words i speak are Spirit , everything that has to do with our salvation is Spirit , if he speaks about water he does not refer to natural water , but spiritual water , Jesus said John 15 :3 already you are clean through the word i have spoken to you: one could draw the conclusion that the water Jesus refers to is the Word : we are born again when we declare our faith in him , we die since he died , we are raised again since he was raised ,that is to say we are baptised into his death through the word , not by the putting away of the filth of the flesh as Peter puts it "the word he spoke was spirit and life" Water baptism is an ever ongoing debate , the origin of this cannot be the word , because out of a fountain we cannot have both good water and bad water at the same time , if I can use the word of God to support a claim and someone else use the same word to support his claim , it is our understanding of the bible text that is incomplete ,if water baptism had been necessary for our salvation it would have been made perfectly clear in the bible , The salvation is Gods own , it would not have been a salvation if God had left any part of it to humans , we cannot even agree how it should be performed ,sprinkling , poring , or total immersion , Landers

The first part of Jesus blood and water shows that 1John 5:8 the Water, Blood and spirit agree in 1. The blood is shed for us, the water to show baptism in his name, his spirit poured into us like the day of Pentecost. Without shedding of Jesus blood, there's no remission (Heb. 9:22).

Jesus does tell his disciples they're clean by his word in John 15:3. Jesus explains the whole time Jesus explains he's the branch and how the branch bears fruit. How are they clean by his word? We have to read Line upon Line (Isaiah 28:9-13).

If you keep reading in the same chapter Jesus explains how they're clean. They abide in his Word. Now let's read.

John 15:10

If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

To take a verse and cancel out Jesus commands is wrong. They're washed because they followed his word spiritually speaking.

I could take Jesus words on the cross and say it is finished and tell you that you don't have to repent or even read his word. Which you would agree that's wrong for me to do. Baptism is necessary, Ananias told Paul to wash away his sins baptism acts 22:16

Acts 22:16

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

This is the same as your parent telling you the words after playing in the dirt, go take a shower and wash away the dirt.

Therefore you're saying Ananias is wrong for baptizing Paul by your statement.

Baptism is necessary. Peter explains this in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Baptism is done by fully submerged in the water. There's no example of sprinkle and there's no baptism done in father, son & HG.

Just Jesus name only.

that's right there is no example of how water baptism is to be carried out ,you need to understand that baptism is spiritual , it is the Spirit working in you both death and life ,for a believer to be baptised , God must call him first ,when you with your mouth declare the Son of God to be your saviour you are baptised through the holy Spirit , John the baptist said , i baptise with water but there is one coming after me who will baptise with the holy Spirit and fire ,, the thief on the cross was nowhere near any water baptism ,water baptism is a remnant from the old testament time when they needed to ritually purify themselves for all manner of reasons ,, Landers

LoL. I like how you changed my words. I'll repeat, there is no example of baptism stating the word father, son, HG in the bible. Now to say there's no example of baptism done carried out in the bible is false. Are you saying Paul was not baptized? Are you saying Philip did not baptize the Eunuch? Are you saying Cornelius the First Gentile was not baptized?

You've also said the thief on the Cross was not baptized. I disagree with you on that. Scripture tells us other wise.

Praise the Lord! I just want to point something out here about thief on the cross. People say that he was not baptize. I beg to differ. (Luke 23:39-43) U have 2 different personalities here happening. 1 knew about the Kingdom and the other didn't. The word kingdom is very important here. (Matt. 3:5-6, Mark 1:5) Records that all around Region was baptized and the Kingdom of Heaven was preached by John the Bapt. Question, how would the thief know about the kingdom if not for John?

Luke 1:76-77 records Zachariah (Johns father) stating that John Baptist will give knowledge of salvation. Which is baptism unto repentance.

You've also said when you call Jesus name you receive the Holy Ghost. Please show scripture stating this. Also how does one know they receive the Holy Ghost?