A SIN UNTO DEATH

[mel]

In 1John 5:16 the Bible says there is "A sin unto death". My question is this; What is the sin unto death?

THE BEREAN NOTEPAD

[hmh]

Becoming born again of satan's seed instead of God's seed.

[angels4u]

HI Mel,

'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He is the propitiation (satisfaction) for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world' (1 John 2:1-2).

The only sin which leads unto dead is the sin of unbelieve.

Every sin can be forgiven exept the sin of unbelieve.

Angels

[Trinity]

HI Mel,

'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He is the propitiation (satisfaction) for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world' (1 John 2:1-2).

The only sin which leads  unto dead is the sin of unbelieve.

Every sin can be forgiven exept the sin of unbelieve.

Angels

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Took the words right from my mouth

[yomotalking]

The only sin which leads

[wordsower]

Some say Moses is an example of a sin unto death. He struck the rock, which symbolized Christ and God took him out.

You can read the story and decide for yourself.

I've heard people use this in saved people that have strayed and gone their own way and God takes them out before they do anymore damage here. I'm not sure on that one.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings,

Well, here are some "sins" unto death:

Mark 3:28-39 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Acts 5:3-5 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

Acts 5:7-10 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

2 Peter 2:10-22 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Revelation 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[borntorebel]

Mel asks,

What is the sin unto death?

Me is asking this question in reference to 1 John 5:16. This scripture references itself in many bibles to what Jesus says about blaspheming the holy spirit.

Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto me: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Mt. 12:31;

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal (eonian) damnation." Mark 3:29.

So we see here in Jesus' own words that to blaspheme against the holy ghost (or spirit) is an unforgivable sin. In Mark, He says the person is in danger of eonian damnation. Isn't this rather redundant? We know that to not be forgiven of sin will lead to death (Rom. 6:23). So why does Jesus say that the person who commits the unforgivable sin is in danger of eonian damnation? It seems to imply that there if forgiveness, so that does cause some confusion to some. I am not making a definitive statement about this, but more of another question to go along with the question which started this thread. Onto the main question.

To blaspheme against the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin, as we have seen from the above scriptures. Let's see what blaspheme means; Blaspheme - Strong's #987 - blasphemeo - from #989; to vilify; specifically to speak impiously.

Vilify - 1. to speak ill (evil, wicked, bad) of; defame (to attack the good name or reputation of...through malicious or false statements); slander.

Impious - lacking reverence for God. Websters Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary. Now, I use Websters to give a more exact definition of the words used in the Strong's definition.

So, to blaspheme is to speak evil of, to defame or slander without reverence, God, or here the holy spirit. Now, I have heard many people speak about some of the gifts of the holy spirit in the same way the religious leaders of Jesus' day speak of His works in Mt. 12:22-31. Could this mean those who have spoke against speaking in tongues or prophecy (that is truly from God) or other gifts of the spirit are guilty of this unforgivable sin? It's an interesting thing to consider, and consider it we must, for it fits what is being said by Jesus. I'm not stating with all assurity this is true, just what I think of when I read this passage. I believe this is what John speaks of in 1 Jn. 5:16. Now onto some other statements

DE says,

Well, here are some "sins" unto death:

The scripture references DE gives are Mark 3:28-39, Acts 5:3-5 & 7-10, 1 Ptr. 2:10-32, Rev. 14:9-11, Rev. 22:18-19. Only Mark 3 refers to what is being discussed here. None of the other passages refers to the sin unto death, which is about not being forgiven.

Wordsower says,

Some say Moses is an example of a sin unto death. He struck the rock, which symbolized Christ and God took him out.

If this is so, then why do Moses and Elias appear in a vision to Jesus in Mt. 17:9? I would imagine if Moses had committed the 'sin unto death', he wouldn't have been worthy to appear in a vision to Jesus and His disciples with Elias. Also, in Heb11:23, it say that Moses had, "...obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise." Heb. 11:39.

As we have already seen, this sin unto death is unforgivable. Moses is never spoken of this way by Jesus or by the Apostles in their writings. I don't think this would be a good comparison to the 1 Jn. 5;16 verse.

Angels4u says,

The only sin which leads unto dead is the sin of unbelieve.

Every sin can be forgiven exept the sin of unbelieve.

Where is this in scripture Angels? The scripture you posteed with this statement doesn't say that it is. Where is the scriptural support for your statement?

hmh says,

Becoming born again of satan's seed instead of God's seed.

Where does it say in scripture that satan has the power to cause people to be 'born again'? Jesus tells us in Jn. 3:3, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nowhere does it say in scripture that satan can cause people to be born again. Where did you come up with this idea?

May God's peace and power be with you,

Ron

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Borntorebel,

So far as I have seen on this forum, you have not contributed one iota to the building up of the body, instead at every turn you are critical and are certainly not listening to the Holy Spirit. I am truly sorry for you. I think you ought to temper your posts a bit and pass along a little more GRACE.

I personally see the verses that I offered as all associated with either not listening to the Holy Spirit, or attributing to Him and His work that which is evil. I believe this is what Jesus was talking about. In each of the verses, the one involved, unless they repent, are doomed to perdition.

Blessings,

Dad ernie

[borntorebel]

DE says,

So far as I have seen on this forum, you have not contributed one iota to the building up of the body, instead at every turn you are critical and are certainly not listening to the Holy Spirit. I am truly sorry for you. I think you ought to temper your posts a bit and pass along a little more GRACE.

So DE, because I ask you to present scriptural proof for your beliefs instead of making up what scripture means, I am being critical? The statement I posted concerning your post about the "sin unto death", which is what we are talking about, showed that the verses you quoted don't have anything to say about the "sin unto death." If you would stick to the subject at hand, then I wouldn't have corrected what you said. How do you know I'm not listening to the holy spirit? Are you the person who God has placed here to determine that? I haven't accused you of not listening to the holy spirit or said that your beliefs will send you to 'hell', as have been said of me and others on here. I don't pretend to know whether or not you are listening to the holy spirit.

Let's go back and read the verse we are discussing here;

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death (since there are sins which aren't unto death, there must be a sin that IS unto death), he shall ask, and he (God) shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. (Now here's the kicker DE, pay attention) There IS a SIN UNTO DEATH (so we see here there is A sin unto death, as compared to what was mentioned earlier in this verse that there are sins which are not unto death): I do not say that he shall pray for it." 1 Jn. 5:16 (parenthetical statements mine).

We are discussing what this "sin unto death" is. As I showed in my post, it refers to what Jesus talked about in Matthew and Mark. How can showing where you or others on here are quoting scripture in error, or adding things to those scriptures which aren't there, be critical? Paul didn't have a problem with people investigating what he taught by searching the scriptures. In fact, he called those people noble (Acts 17:11). Let's see what else Paul has to say about correct doctrine and sound teaching;

"…that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine, neither give heed to fables and endless geneaologies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.” 1 Tim. 1:3-4;

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men, especially of those that believe. These things command and teach.” 1 Tim. 4:1 -11;

“Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, which the laying on of hands of the presbytery. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.” 1 Tim. 4:13 (has the gift within you been approved as Paul said here?);

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.” 1 Tim. 6:3-6 (the beliefs I refute were created by these questions and strifes about words Paul speaks against. Since the governement at that time wanted peace, it sided with those religious leaders who agreed with their point of view. In the councils of the early church, 200-400 A.D., it was the governementally approved leaders who determined what was truth and what wasn't);

“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called (freewill, trinity, eternity, etc.): which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.” 1 Tim. 6:20;

“Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.” 2Tim. 1:13;

“It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful; he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker; of whom is Hymanaeus and Philetus; who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Tim. 2:11-19;

“But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive (war, quarrel or dispute); but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” 2 Tim. 2:23-26;

“And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect , thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Tim. 3:15-17;

“Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sounds doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.” 2 Tim. 4:2-5.

Now, I'm sure you and others will say you are the ones who are protecting sound doctrine. Ok, then back up what you say with scripture that supports your belief.

DE says,

I personally see the verses that I offered as all associated with either not listening to the Holy Spirit, or attributing to Him and His work that which is evil. I believe this is what Jesus was talking about. In each of the verses, the one involved, unless they repent, are doomed to perdition.

The problem with this statement is that only the quote from Mark speaks of attributing to the holy spirit or it's works as being evil, which is the "sin unto death", or that won't be forgiven in this age or the age to come. The verse which started this thread speaks of sins which lead not unto death, which I believe the sins mentioned in all of the passages you quoted speak of, but it also speaks of the sin that leads unto death. This is the question which Mel asked, and it would be good to stick to that question. Also, where do any of the verses you quoted use the word "perdition"?

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron