Are you still a Christian if...

[Gandalf]

I have never heard anyone ever say Hitler was a Christian. Although I have heard that Hitler was interested is Satanism, and that's what would be believable based on his actions. What's more, the terrible things Hitler ordered his men to do, would be no less terrible if he had chosen to kill off all of any other nationality of people besides the Jews. What's more, it wasn't just that Hitler was killing millions of people, it was how he did it that made him such a notoriously evil person. So I'm not sure how Hitler came into this discussion, but I hope someone just used him as an example. I think there is no doubt that Hitler wasn't a Christian.

 

What I really want to reply to is the idea of living in unrepentant sin. Some said he doesn't know any Christians NOT living in unrepentant sin. This needs explaining. On the one hand all sin is bad because God says it's wrong, but not all sin is the same. It is all wrong and ideally a Christian's life should be a constant attempt to teach ones self to live without each sin. But this is a life long journey. Over the course of your life, if you really are a Christian, you will see how you will have less sin than you did 10, 20 or more years ago. If you aren't seeing this in your life, you need to reevaluate yourself.

 

Back to living in unrepentant sin. There is a huge difference between living with some sins in your life, as compared to living in unrepentant sin. We all have some sins in our lives, but we aren't all living in unrepentant sin. To understand the difference, I am going to borrow a concept from Catholicism. They separate sin into 2 categories.  They call them venial sins and mortal sins. This is similar to having sin in your life, or living in unrepentant sin.

 

Now even though Catholicism would probably call lying a venial or minor sin, if you live your life based on lying, it then becomes a mortal or major sin, and you are then living in unrepentant sin. But if you tell someone a little lie, maybe because they're prying into something that's private, that's not living in unrepentant sin. But I have known people who simply lie about everything for no good reason at all. That's living in unrepentant sin.

 

However, I think this thread is mostly about homosexuality, abortion, and living with constant fornication. For the last 40 years or so, Christians have been having a hard time deciding if they believe fornication is a terrible sin. As a group we have mostly decided to believe it isn't. And so the people from my generation have been engaging in casual sex, and divorcing and remarrying as they please, and still believe they are going to Heaven. Therefore, most of the people younger than me, grew up believing casual sex, along with divorce and remarriage are fine with God. My understanding from the Bible as to how God feels about this is that it's not okay. But very few of us have put this into practice.

 

Now we are being confronted with homosexuality. My Bible says God is against this. Are we, as a group, going to convince ourselves that God is ok with homosexuality, as we did with casual sex, and divorce and remarriage. Or are we going to separate ourselves from the world and take a stance against homosexuality?  We will have to live and work amongst them, but we can't agree with them.

 

And I have one last comment. If you're living with a partner of the opposite sex, without marriage, and you criticize a homosexual couple and they get angry at you, don't be surprised.

 

I think it's time for us to take a stand for God in our lives. Or when Jesus comes back will He find all Christians living in sexual sins, of one kind or or the other?     

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All fair points. But I have to caution against focussing on sexual sins. Many Christians love money, others are obviously proud or self-righteous, some clearly don't love their Christian brothers and sisters, some excuse oppression, and so on.

[Elhanan]

All fair points. But I have to caution against focussing on sexual sins. Many Christians love money, others are obviously proud or self-righteous, some clearly don't love their Christian brothers and sisters, some excuse oppression, and so on.

 

Your point reminds me of Paul's admonition to examine ourselves when we come together for communion.  Often times the pastor/minister will instruct the congregation to quietly reflect and search our hearts lest we eat the bread or drink from the cup in an unworthy manner (1 Cor 11:27-29).  And what was the "unworthy manner" that Paul accused some of those within the Corinthian church of?  "²⁰ When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. ²¹ For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. ²² What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not."

³³ So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— ³⁴ if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home—so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

Paul pointed out that because of this some fell ill and even died (v.30).  In my sinful self, I would have never thought that not waiting for others before eating is a sin - certainly a very rude and uncouth social violation but not a sin.  And to think that some died because of this??  Just goes to show me how I tend to focus on the "big" sins and minimize or overlook the sins that are not so obvious.  God calls us to a high standard.

[JTC]

Elhanan, concerning the verses you quoted above, I need to tell you something I was told when I was a new Christian. Now if someone knows for a fact I'm wrong then please correct me. A preacher (whom I forget who) said that in the very early church, or at least at the one in Corinth, when they did the Lord's Supper, they actually ate a small meal. So some people were being inconsiderate and started eating before everyone even had food on their plates, or wine in their cups. And others were asking for wine refills, which was allowed, but some drank so much they got drunk. And that's why Paul had to give them this curious admonishment. But things like this also help explain how the Lord's Supper came down to what it is today. Just 1 small piece of bread, and a small cup of grape juice. Around here there are many ex-alcoholics in some of the churches, and it's unwise to give a person who is now clean from booze, any wine at all.

 

 

I know that some of you here can quote the Bible way better than me. So I need one of you who can do this to help me. Or maybe I'm wrong on this? My memory isn't what it used to be. I'm almost sure that some where in the NT there is a scripture that says something like this: To he who knows a certain thing is a sin it will be considered sin if he does that thing. But to another person who doesn't know that thing is a sin, if he does it God won't count it as a sin. But I'm not saying this quite right, and I think there is more to the thought being expressed. But I can't find it, even with the search engines.

 

This concept is more important right now than before, because TV, movies, and popular music has many people brainwashed to think all manner of sins are not sins. Right now homosexuality is in the spot light, but greed & lust for all sorts of things, not just sex, seem right to many people who call themselves Christians. And let us remember that God doesn't want any souls going to hell. So we ought not neither no matter how angry some of these people make us. And some of them will intentionally try to make you angry so they can laugh at you, and call you a hypocrite when you get so angry that then you are sinning too. Remember Satan and his devils know the Bible better than most of us. So the devils can easily put this knowledge into an unsaved persons head, and have that person attack you with it. And this is why we need to wear the full armor of God. But to do so can take many years. I know this because I've been trying to get it all on a long time. And I'm still working on it.

 

So does anyone know where those verses are?

[Elhanan]

Elhanan, concerning the verses you quoted above, I need to tell you something I was told when I was a new Christian. Now if someone knows for a fact I'm wrong then please correct me. A preacher (whom I forget who) said that in the very early church, or at least at the one in Corinth, when they did the Lord's Supper, they actually ate a small meal. So some people were being inconsiderate and started eating before everyone even had food on their plates, or wine in their cups. And others were asking for wine refills, which was allowed, but some drank so much they got drunk. And that's why Paul had to give them this curious admonishment. But things like this also help explain how the Lord's Supper came down to what it is today. Just 1 small piece of bread, and a small cup of grape juice. Around here there are many ex-alcoholics in some of the churches, and it's unwise to give a person who is now clean from booze, any wine at all.

 

 

I know that some of you here can quote the Bible way better than me. So I need one of you who can do this to help me. Or maybe I'm wrong on this? My memory isn't what it used to be. I'm almost sure that some where in the NT there is a scripture that says something like this: To he who knows a certain thing is a sin it will be considered sin if he does that thing. But to another person who doesn't know that thing is a sin, if he does it God won't count it as a sin. But I'm not saying this quite right, and I think there is more to the thought being expressed. But I can't find it, even with the search engines.

 

This concept is more important right now than before, because TV, movies, and popular music has many people brainwashed to think all manner of sins are not sins. Right now homosexuality is in the spot light, but greed & lust for all sorts of things, not just sex, seem right to many people who call themselves Christians. And let us remember that God doesn't want any souls going to hell. So we ought not neither no matter how angry some of these people make us. And some of them will intentionally try to make you angry so they can laugh at you, and call you a hypocrite when you get so angry that then you are sinning too. Remember Satan and his devils know the Bible better than most of us. So the devils can easily put this knowledge into an unsaved persons head, and have that person attack you with it. And this is why we need to wear the full armor of God. But to do so can take many years. I know this because I've been trying to get it all on a long time. And I'm still working on it.

 

So does anyone know where those verses are?

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You are correct JTC, in the early church the Lord's supper was a fellowship meal of which the cup and loaf were part of a full meal. Today we have ritualized communion and reduced it to the elements of pieces of bread and a small container of grape juice or wine - hardly anything to fill one's appetite. It's a pet peeve of mine that in today's churches we have reduced the Lord's supper to the Lord's snack - if you can even call it a snack - probably more like the Lord's nibble. We have strayed from Apostolic tradition especially when you consider that the Lord's supper anticipates the marriage supper of the Lamb - a nibble foreshadowing a great feast seems pathetic to me.

I also seem to recall scriptures to what you are referring to:

¹⁴ For when Gentiles who do not have ^[a]the Law do ^[b]instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having ^[c]the Law, are a law to themselves, ¹⁵ in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,  Rom 2:14-15

 

Therefore, to one who knows the ^[k]right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin. James 4:17

 

I think there are others but I would have to research which I don't have time for right now.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by Elhanan

[JTC]

Hey Elhanan,  You made me laugh with The Lord's Nibble. I assume you were trying to be funny. I see no harm in that. 

 

The verses you quoted from Romans aren't the ones I'm trying to recall. But the one in James may be one of them. But I seem to remember there being more to it, because at first glance, and if all of it isn't read and put together, it almost sounds like a person is better off if he's deaf, dumb, and blind to the things of God. I remember being confused by that at first. But as I kept reading there came an explanation and a very good reason for why a person should know all he's capable of understanding about God. And I have noticed throughout my Christian life, that we're not all able to understand everything. Maybe I'm putting this all together in my own mind. Because it just occurred to me that some of these verses may be where Peter has the vision on the roof about all animals being declared as clean. But then I also think it was something Jesus said.

 

This is what happens as we get older, sometimes. A lot of different things tend to meld together.

[freeman455]

Have you had someone ask if you were “Born Again”? This seems to be a standard question from one who considers themself to be Christian. The answer to that question should be “no” I am not born again, but I am in the process of being born again at a future time. Let me explain. Before an individual can begin to understand Gods truth and what He stands for, he or she must first know about Him and His Son, Jesus Christ. When I say one must hear about Jesus Christ, they must understand what He is all about and that He was the first to be born again. He is the first of the “First Fruits”. All who are alive now are still physical mortal beings, flesh and blood, still capable of dying of a physical death. Before the born again process can take place one must accept Jesus Christ as their redeemer, their personal Savior.

Once this has been accomplished and one accepts Jesus as their Redeemer, they are then a potential “Son of God”. While this is being accomplished an individual then begins to understand, they begin to comprehend in their mind what God is all about. While this is occurring one is in the process of having a new birth in the future, being born again, not yet fully born in a Spiritual form for they are still physical in nature. This is only the preparation stage of being born in the Spirit or being born again. When God is calling an individual they are in the process of being convicted by the Spirit of God. Then the Holy Spirit will begin working in the mind and is the first step in becoming born again in a future time when they will become Spirit beings. The complete birth process or being “born again” won’t occur until our Lord and Savior returns. Then and only then are we changed to spirit, being born again of a Spirit Essence. Being human and of the flesh you are then a potential son of God, not yet born in the God family until He returns. You are still human in nature, not spirit.

Notice in 1^st Corinthians ch 15: verse 23; “but every man in his own order, (everyone that has been called by God and who has become His potential son, will become God’s Son in the order and the time God chooses for them) Christ the first fruits: (Jesus Christ was the first one “Born Again of the Spirit” And this occurred at the resurrection. He was the first of the First Fruits.) Only the one’s who belong to Jesus Christ will be born again at His Coming and not before. That includes those who are in the grave.

As stated before, before an individual can become a Christian they must first hear and understand why our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ died for us. As an individual continues to study and hear more about the Gospel (good news) of God, then they are in the process of being called or converted by God. After one has made A decision to confess Christ with their own mouth and then be baptized, then and only then are they on their way of being born as a Spirit being in the future. But until that time, that individual is still a physical being. Not yet spirit. Not yet born again, but only a potential son of God in the physical, only becoming a Spirit Son of God when Jesus Christ returns.

“THE PHYSICAL & SPIRITUAL STRUCTURE”

(Please read 1 Corinthians Ch 15:)

When God created man and woman, He had a plan already in place for them. That plan included a Family structure, both physical and Spiritual. Scripture tells us that Adam knew Eve and Eve bore Children. God made it possible for when man and woman have a relationship that the man will impregnate a woman with his seed. As this occurs and if all is as it should be inside the womb, a human being will be conceived inside the womb and that being will start to grow. The being inside the womb must be nourished and fed by the mother by what she eats and is then given to the baby being formed in the womb, in turn the baby will grow for nine months and then he or she will be born to a physical life.

For an individual to be born is not an instant process. The mother for the next nine months has to make sure that the right nourishment is given to this child through the life support in which she provides through her own body. After a time process of nine months the child will then be born and it will be born in a physical state. All the time this child is being protected inside the womb of its mother.

Now, let us look at a Christian’s life and how it to is developed. When a person begins to hear the Word of God and to hear about God’s Son, Jesus Christ, that individual is in the process of having a spiritual relationship, just as a physical man and woman have a physical relationship. As an individual listens and begins to learn from God’s word, he or she is in the process of the future birth with God’s Holy Spirit. Now when one is baptized, they at that time are impregnated with God’s Holy Spirit and, just as a baby in it mothers womb, they to have to go through a time process in the spiritual womb of God. They have to, just as the baby in the womb, are be nourished with the right food (spiritual in nature). So as a baby in the physical womb has a time to be born, so does a Christian in the spiritual womb have a time process before they are “BORN AGAIN”. That born again birth will not occur until Jesus Christ returns and all who are alive and are in the embryo stage will at that time be changed from a PHYSICAL BEING to a SPIRITUAL BEING, they will be, BORN AGAIN. Not of a physical state but of a spiritual nature.

Those individuals whom have died and have God’s Holy Spirit will be resurrected at the time of Jesus Christ return and they to will meet Him in the air and will be born of a SPIRITUAL nature with a new body at the same time of those who are alive.

Many have misunderstood the born again process. Hopefully this will help you to understand what it is all about. So may we all learn and grow in the womb of God, the Church and get ready for our birth in JESUS CHRIST as a new creature.

 

 

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