Willa Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,253 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,669 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2013 My understanding is that being tempted is not in itself a sin. Acting on the temptation is a sin. Lusting after a woman or man would be sin whether gay or straight. Most gay people make that a part of their identity. But should they repent and be born again, being gay should no longer be a part of their identity (as to who they are). In other words, they cannot be a gay Christian. They are either a sinner or they identify with Christ. They either identify themselves as being gay, or they identify themselves as being a Christian. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Repentance is turning away from a sinful lifestyle and turning toward Christ in faith for forgiveness and deliverance from sin. Sometimes our salvation is a bit more of a process. God convicts according to His priorities, not ours. So it is sometimes difficult to identify a baby Christian when we see glaring sins that, should they continue to practice these, will keep them out of heaven. For we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ, from glory to glory, and we would expect to see these strongholds come down. Col 3:5-10 indicates that this is an ongoing process, as well. He is speaking to Christians when he is saying consider the members of your earthly body to be dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed. While they no longer make this a life style, they are still being tempted and even may fall. So I am saying that we should be discerning, but not be quick to judge. We should be full of grace as is our Lord Jesus Christ. And we should hate sin but loves sinners. We should come along side those who are struggling and be full of compassion toward those who have a contrite heart. But we should oppose those who are proud and who advocate "gay pride". There is no such thing as a gay christian, celibate or not. They are either gay or they are a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarmRoom Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 141 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 2 Joined: 05/21/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2013 I have just quick question if I may interject. Is this more along the lines of semantics? If they were to not identify as homosexual but recognized that they may have these urges and in doing so reject the temptation of the urge. While they might not be able to identify is heterosexual as there is no inclination to do so could they simply drop the homosexual moniker and state "because we have homosexual urges we feel it is in our best interest to abstain from sexual contact as we do not want to be tempted by sin." in this manner they don't identify as homosexual but just merely as a human being. Would this not resolve the issue at hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,367 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,548 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I have just quick question if I may interject. Is this more along the lines of semantics? If they were to not identify as homosexual but recognized that they may have these urges and in doing so reject the temptation of the urge. While they might not be able to identify is heterosexual as there is no inclination to do so could they simply drop the homosexual moniker and state "because we have homosexual urges we feel it is in our best interest to abstain from sexual contact as we do not want to be tempted by sin." in this manner they don't identify as homosexual but just merely as a human being. Would this not resolve the issue at hand? No sir! The issue of sin is one of the heart the deepest part of us that all else stems from... if you have sinful desires and don't act on them.... you still have desire that is sinful! God tells us that in Jesus His Son new birth is possible- a spiritual reality where the wrong desire can be completely changed into right desire! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2013 I think all of us will be most surprised at the rapture to see those whom we have judged unworthy of heaven to be be standing next to us. We should first look at ourselves and our faults/ sins and then decide if the one we are judging is worthy of the unmerited grace offered to us by Jesus' redemptive act on the cross. We judge too freely from our own experience and not from the eyes of the love of God. The OP says that these men are Christians who do not act upon that predisposition. How many of us act on any of our own faults albeit they are not the same as those of these men? Lust, envy, jealousy, just to start with yet we see not our own sin but judge that of someone who has accepted Jesus and follows Him by not surrendering to his desire. If it is possible we also will be surprised at those of us who we thought for sure would make it to heaven and did not.I think that they will have a second chance in the tribulation to do so.With God's Grace and Mercy that is the way He works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarmRoom Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 141 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 2 Joined: 05/21/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2013 I have just quick question if I may interject. Is this more along the lines of semantics? If they were to not identify as homosexual but recognized that they may have these urges and in doing so reject the temptation of the urge. While they might not be able to identify is heterosexual as there is no inclination to do so could they simply drop the homosexual moniker and state "because we have homosexual urges we feel it is in our best interest to abstain from sexual contact as we do not want to be tempted by sin." in this manner they don't identify as homosexual but just merely as a human being. Would this not resolve the issue at hand? No sir! The issue of sin is one of the heart the deepest part of us that all else stems from... if you have sinful desires and don't act on them.... you still have desire that is sinful! God tells us that in Jesus His Son new birth is possible- a spiritual reality where the wrong desire can be completely changed into right desire! Love, Steven thanks for clarifying. I cant agree with that assertion but then again I don't have to. At least it should give me a better perspective on that position though. I think I might have learned something today =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ninhao Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Passive homosexuals as you call it and repentant homosexuals are not the same thing. If you are a homosexual and you simply don't act on your desire but consider being gay perfectly fine and good, you are decieved. Sin begins in the heart according to Jesus. Homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of God and the Bible makes no false dichotomy between practicing and nonpracticing gays, pure and simple. You are trying to pencil something into the Bible that isn't there. Repentant homosexuals who truly seek to be delivered from the deisre altogether, who have given their hearts to Jesus and reject the lifestyle as sinful are entirely different matter. They may struggle with temptation, but they don't sit around and justify it and the last thing they need is for people to tell them that having those desires is okay. God save them from liberal, sin-enabling "Christians" know just enough about the Bible to be dangerous. Hello Shiloh, ( or anyone else who has an insight ) I would like some comparative clarification if you may. Is the repentant homosexual who stumbles into sinful sexual desires of the same ilk as the repentant heterosexual who stumbles into sinful sexual desires ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,367 Content Per Day: 8.00 Reputation: 21,548 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Passive homosexuals as you call it and repentant homosexuals are not the same thing. If you are a homosexual and you simply don't act on your desire but consider being gay perfectly fine and good, you are decieved. Sin begins in the heart according to Jesus. Homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of God and the Bible makes no false dichotomy between practicing and nonpracticing gays, pure and simple. You are trying to pencil something into the Bible that isn't there. Repentant homosexuals who truly seek to be delivered from the desire altogether, who have given their hearts to Jesus and reject the lifestyle as sinful are entirely different matter. They may struggle with temptation, but they don't sit around and justify it and the last thing they need is for people to tell them that having those desires is okay. God save them from liberal, sin-enabling "Christians" know just enough about the Bible to be dangerous. Hello Shiloh, ( or anyone else who has an insight ) I would like some comparative clarification if you may. Is the repentant homosexual who stumbles into sinful sexual desires of the same ilk as the repentant heterosexual who stumbles into sinful sexual desires ? Yes sin is sin and we are to avoid it like the plague! Now all sin can be qualified as equal as sin James 2:10. God says we are like new born babes when we first come to Him and He grants us eternal life with a brand new heart of desire for Him... and yes like small children we fall and get back up but we grow and we fall less and walk more all the time! Now as born again beings we can by choice walk in the flesh or walk in The Spirit but it is war within ourselves till we go home! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestrfcplayer Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 145 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2013 If they choose celibacy, then they will be saved. And if they chose to continue to be gay, then I think they will still be saved. I mean, why is it that 'homosexuals are not saved' is really the last big tenant of the OT laws that the Christian Right keeps?n why not all the other laws too? I say Christianity as a whole drops the gays can't be saved act. I personally think that gays should be celibate, but I can't force that upon them, nor can anyone else, nor the government, which should mostly stay out of its citizens private lives at all times expect in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 27, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.09 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 27, 2013 If they choose celibacy, then they will be saved. And if they chose to continue to be gay, then I think they will still be saved. I mean, why is it that 'homosexuals are not saved' is really the last big tenant of the OT laws that the Christian Right keeps?n why not all the other laws too? I say Christianity as a whole drops the gays can't be saved act. I personally think that gays should be celibate, but I can't force that upon them, nor can anyone else, nor the government, which should mostly stay out of its citizens private lives at all times expect in war. God clearly calls the practice of homosexuality an abomination; we can't pretend it's okay. That isn't even fair to homosexuals themselves because it gives them a false sense of eternal security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 28, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2013 If they choose celibacy, then they will be saved. And if they chose to continue to be gay, then I think they will still be saved. I mean, why is it that 'homosexuals are not saved' is really the last big tenant of the OT laws that the Christian Right keeps?n why not all the other laws too? I say Christianity as a whole drops the gays can't be saved act. I personally think that gays should be celibate, but I can't force that upon them, nor can anyone else, nor the government, which should mostly stay out of its citizens private lives at all times expect in war. These are good questions... One member put it quite well regarding the 10 Commandments... Speaking of the 10 Commandments... I think that first of all that what we need to understand is that the Commandments themselves were given as a sign of the covenant between God and Israel...as a sign that Israel was now a chosen nation under God's own law and rule, set apart from all the gentile nations. In fact, the tablets were carried in "The Ark of The Covenant". As such they were never binding upon the gentile nations, and it is also of note that they carry no penalty for disobedience. Every one of the commandments is repeated in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, this time carrying a penalty in the manner of a penal code setting forth the law by which God's people Israel would live. As has been mentioned, the law was our tutor to bring us to the knowledge that we need a savior, Jesus Christ. That is not to say that the 10 Commandments aren't a wonderful guide to live by...for most certainly they are...but yet having been set free from the law (the entire body of the law) the 10 Commandments are not binding upon the Christian. Now the question always seems to arise: "Well, if we don't have to keep the 10 Commandments, we can do anything we want...right?" The answer of course is a resounding "no". We have entered into a New Covenant by the precious blood of Christ, wherein God's laws are written upon our hearts by the Holy Spirit...and if we think about it, Christ "raised the bar" in every case. Under OT law, adultery for example was a physical act. But Jesus told us that if we look upon a woman to lust after her..we've already committed adultery in our heart. Under OT law murder was once again a physical act. But again Jesus tells us murder proceeds from the heart. The other thing ("raising the bar") was that OT law could be simply a matter of rote. Indeed, somewhere along the line the various religious leaders lost sight of the fact that righteousness is imputed by faith (Hebrews 11 et.al), to the point that by Jesus' time the Mishnah had whole chapters on how to ceremonially wash dishes so that they would be "clean"! But yet Jesus told us: Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matt 22:37-40 Nothing rote about this! So then, in my opinion the OT laws (to include the 10 Commandments) are not binding upon the Christian, because we have entered into a new and better covenant; and one which has superseded the covenant of law given on Sinai. Your thoughts? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts