Guest Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 This all goes to incorrectly assigning values and motives that are simply not there. Heterosexual temptations are not palatable and no one said they were. Temptation to sin is not palatable in any shape or form, gay or not. It is not a matter of condemning people for the kinds of temptations that come to them. It is a matter of explaining that the Bible doesn't define homoexuality sin in terms of mere action, but by the desires that are entertained in the heart. It is one thing to be tempted. We call get tempted and we can't help the temptations that come to us. But what we CAN help is how we respond to the temptations. It is when temptation is entertained that leads to action.... Amen~! And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 1:28-32 Amen~! But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6 And Amen~! For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 But you speak as if you know their hearts. You talk of them entertaining the sin and all of that. They readily admit that they don't believe that being gay is a sin and said so in the OP. I am not acting as if I know their hearts. I am speaking to what they have already claimed to believe. You have concluded they are not Christians based on your flawed view. Yes you are sitting in God's place. But you are too rigid to see it. Brother this has been a long standing issue with you...your desire to be right. I'm sorry but you are not in this instance. Also I didn't call a pharisee, I said what you are doing is typical of one or shall I say can be liken to thier actions. I am simply stating what the Bible says. The problem is that they are gay and see nothing wrong with that. They reject the Scriptures that assert homosexuality is a sin. The ancient Rabbis saw sin as existing only in the act of sin. It was not a sin to hate, but only to act on the hate, i.e. murder. Jesus said that if you hate someone you have already murdered them in your heart. The Rabbis didn't recognize that the sin of lust was equivalent to adultery. Jesus said that adultery was already committed in their heart even if they didn't act on it. Jesus' point was that it wasn't enough to simply not act on it. Jesus emphasized purity of heart and holds to a much stricter standard of purity than the Pharisees did. The same applies here. They are living in sin because they harbor homosexuality. They don't see their sinful desires as sin. To remain in sin, to refuse to repent of sin to live as a homosexual even if you are not sexually active, to identify yourself as a homosexual and live inpenitently in that identity places you outside the Kingdom of God. They cannot have both. They cannot be gay and be Christians at the same time. The sin of homosexuality was especially hated by God and God never changes. God didn't change HIs stance on that lifestyle. He still considers it an abomination even if you don't. We have to be honest about the ugliness of this sin and the fact that it is keeping people out of the Kingdom of God. The more you talk the less love I hear. You even attempting to qualify your statement shows that you lack love, and compassion. Know your place, if you truly loved them, you would pray for them. For they are calling upon the name of our Lord. Who are you to say they are not justified before Him. They will fall or they will stand before Him...not you. They are under God's judgment. The worst thing you can do is not tell them the truth. They are not calling on the Lord at all. They are trying to stay celibate which is not a biblical action. The Bible nowhere teaches celibacy. It is a fleshly act, not a spiritual one. The most unloving thing we can do is coddle them in their sin and tell them that it's okay. That is not compassion, and that's not love. Love wants for what is for your highest good. The best thing for them to do is repent and be delivered. The best thing is for them to come to Jesus. The worst thing is to let them think their meaningless and empty act of celibacy is "Christian" or even meritorious. They need to get in line with Scripture and view their sin the way God does. Only then will they take the first step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Concering my comment it had nothing to do with the typo. I understood what was meant, but it was still generic in terms. Basically Shiloh is saying that one is gay based on attraction, and due to this they cannot be a Christian...even if they don't live out the feelings. This right here is my issue. It is down right outrageous to make such a bold claim. Like I said insert anything in there and all of us are disqualfied. Given that Homosexulaity is an abomination (disgusting, contemptable) to God, how could a person live in that sin and be a Chrisitan? Why would a Christian believe that something so horrible in God's eyes isn't really a sin??? How could a person who claims to be a Christian think they can please God while identifying themselves as a homosexual?? When Jesus died on the cross it was to satisfy God's justice in terms of the sin that separated us from God. Even if we never committed a single sin, we would still be separated from God because of the sin that is in our hearts. We are sinners by default. Becoming a Christian is a transformation of the heart. We are new creations and the old things are passed away. So how can a new Creation in Christ also be gay?? It makes no sense from a biblical standpoint. If the heart has been truly transformed, and old things passed away and ALL things are made new, there is no way a genuine follower of Jesus could possibly identify themselves as gay. No possible way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncn Posted May 29, 2013 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 6 Topic Count: 406 Topics Per Day: 0.09 Content Count: 5,248 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 1,337 Days Won: 67 Joined: 08/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2013 Sorry, my bad. I am not so proficient in English to read between lines...yet I'm stepping in here just for one reason and probably going out on a limb. Luca is Italian and is still learning English language skills. I have spoken with him many times in chat. I can assure you, that from having spoken to him he comes across as someone that has Christian values in his heart. He is trying to also participate on the boards and I can understand that due to his lack of language skills he can at times not fully understand what is being written or read between the lines. He's a new member and perhaps I have no right to ask this. Please try and understand that he wishes to be part of Worthy and participate in forum discussions. Could I ask that members help him and encourage him? If you disagree with him, tell him; but also show patience and love. PS> Luca , sorry if I stepped in unasked. Please try and read,think/translate before you post and hit the reply button. I'm sure others will do the same . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 29, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 29, 2013 From the OP... Between the faction of gay Christians who are happy with their sexual identity and "ex-gays," who say they've removed their homosexual yearnings, is a third group that gets little attention. These so-called Side B Christians identify as gay and believe it's not sinful to do so. But because they see acting on their orientation as ungodly, they commit to a life of celibacy. .... In interviewing people who had sought help from ex-gay groups and then left, Creek found two distinct groups: Side As, who reconciled their sexuality with their religion and believe being gay and Christian is not contradictory; and Side Bs, who accept their orientation but commit to celibacy in order to remain in line with anti-homosexuality tenets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan1311 Posted May 30, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1969 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Salvation is eternal and if sinning causes a person to loose it the Blood has no power. So the question is if he sins after receiving Christ what happens? If you lie, cheat, steal, smoke or even over eat ( glutton ) sin, do you loose ur salvation? NO! Absolutly Not! Even if you practice such thing ur salvation is sure, you will loose ur portion of your inheritance but not ur salvation. So if they choose celibacy fine, if not and fall into that lifestyle againg as long as they want to the can be delicered. Thats my answer and I'm sticking to it! So Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted May 30, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2013 Concering my comment it had nothing to do with the typo. I understood what was meant, but it was still generic in terms. Basically Shiloh is saying that one is gay based on attraction, and due to this they cannot be a Christian...even if they don't live out the feelings. This right here is my issue. It is down right outrageous to make such a bold claim. Like I said insert anything in there and all of us are disqualfied. Given that Homosexulaity is an abomination (disgusting, contemptable) to God, how could a person live in that sin and be a Chrisitan? Why would a Christian believe that something so horrible in God's eyes isn't really a sin??? How could a person who claims to be a Christian think they can please God while identifying themselves as a homosexual?? When Jesus died on the cross it was to satisfy God's justice in terms of the sin that separated us from God. Even if we never committed a single sin, we would still be separated from God because of the sin that is in our hearts. We are sinners by default. Becoming a Christian is a transformation of the heart. We are new creations and the old things are passed away. So how can a new Creation in Christ also be gay?? It makes no sense from a biblical standpoint. If the heart has been truly transformed, and old things passed away and ALL things are made new, there is no way a genuine follower of Jesus could possibly identify themselves as gay. No possible way. I agree with your statement. I also know of a guy who is homo sexual and grew up in a Christian family,I know that the whole family is praying for him to understand that he has to change his way of thinking,he know's it's not pleasing God and I believe this person thinks he's he's a Christian. I do believe that God can call him out of this life style to live for Him because of all the prayers of his Godly family. I anything too big for God? In the mean time we still love the person for who he is........... Is he a genuine Christian? "No" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubting_tommy Posted May 30, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 264 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2013 They need to get in line with Scripture and view their sin the way God does. The way that God views their 'sin' may not necessarily be the same as the way that you view it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarmRoom Posted May 30, 2013 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 141 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 2 Joined: 05/21/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) I am curious Shilo since you used the term abomination you are referring to Leviticus. What are your views on Christians who attend crawfish festivals? Edited May 30, 2013 by WarmRoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 But you speak as if you know their hearts. You talk of them entertaining the sin and all of that. They readily admit that they don't believe that being gay is a sin and said so in the OP. I am not acting as if I know their hearts. I am speaking to what they have already claimed to believe. Ok, this is your big problem? They don't believe that the attraction is sinful. This is your big gotcha. The fact is this while they may not believe the attraction is sinful they do believe that the act that solidifies it is. It is up us to pray for and God to show these ones that homosexuality is sinful. However, this does not give us merit to question if they are genuine. That is what you are doing brother. This is beyond your scope. But continue as you desire. All in the name of "truth" right. You cannot divorce the sinful act frorm the sinful desire that serves as the motivation for carrying out the sin. That they don't act on it doesn't mean they are not living in sin. From the OP: "Between the faction of gay Christians who are happy with their sexual identity and "ex-gays," who say they've removed their homosexual yearnings, is a third group that gets little attention. These so-called Side B Christians identify as gay and believe it's not sinful to do so. But because they see acting on their orientation as ungodly, they commit to a life of celibacy. .... In interviewing people who had sought help from ex-gay groups and then left, Creek found two distinct groups: Side As, who reconciled their sexuality with their religion and believe being gay and Christian is not contradictory; and Side Bs, who accept their orientation but commit to celibacy in order to remain in line with anti-homosexuality tenets." Neither group feels that being gay is a sin. That side B accepts their orientation but feel that acting on it is ungodly demonstrates a major problem in their theology. They want to identify themselves as gay and remain gay. It is not merely attraction, but rather a fundamental identity issue. They identify with the gay community, would accept gay marriage. They probably have gay partners and engage in other areas of romantic activity but are simply celibate. They are not repentant gays struggling with the inherent contradiction in their belief system. They see no fundamental contradiction. They don't condemn other gays who are sexually active, they simply regulate themselves. Therein lies another problem. they have not come to Jesus for deliverance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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