Are the Dead...?

[Floatingaxe]

 

The believers are in heaven right now.The unbelivers are in shoel/hades Luke 16:22-23 waiting their final judgment and then they will be banished to hell which is their final place of punishment/torment.

The scripture does not say that the believers are in heaven, else there wouldn't be any need for a rapture (please read 1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17, they are however in a place, the believers in a place of rest and unbelievers in hell. The dead are asleep (St John 11: 11-14). as to the part about being conscious, I believe that they are not conscious of what is happening on earth Eccessiates 9:5-6) but to some extent apart of them liveth.

 

 

 

Yes, the scriptures teach us that when we who are believers die, we are instantly with our Lord. It has no bearing on the Rapture, in which the BODIES of the dead in Christ will rise with their new physical bodies, and be united with their spirits.

 

The dead are NOT asleep. The only reason you see 'sleep' in scripture in reference to death is that it was the ancient description of what physical death is.

[freeman455]

 

There are so many who are not overly concerned about all that may happen in the near future simply because they say that they will be “Raptured off ” or that is Christ will come and take them away before this all comes about. If that is what one wants to believe that is their choice, but that does not mean that it will happen. There has been a conspiracy working toward getting individuals geared for this “Rapture” and it will come to haunt them in the end.

 

I know that what will be given here will more than likely not change any individuals thinking on this matter, but it has got to be addressed just the same. Satan is the greatest counter fitter that has ever lived and has many in his grasp at this time. And no, I am not saying that those individuals are of Satan but I am saying that he does have a controlling grasp over many individuals now.

 

As we are hearing much talk about WW111 and that it may be very close, there are those who believe that they will be taken out of harms way before all of this happens. They believe that Jesus Christ will come and take them away from, up to Heaven before it does happen.

 

But what does Scripture really have to say about this and will what they look for really come to pass? I want to show how this is something that people should be overly concerned about and how they very well will be caught in a trap. The truth is that individuals need to be preparing for what is coming and that their family will be in terrible condition if they do not seek out the truth and ask God for His guidance in this matter.

 

 

 

1Th 4:16

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

 

No indication in the above scripture of when Jesus will return, just that He will.

 

 

 

1Th 4:17

Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

 

 

 

 

 

All it states is that those who are His Elect will meet Him in the air. It is I hope obvious to all that They and Jesus will not stay there in the air and will always be with Him in the air. If that be the case, I want no part of it. But that will not be the final stopping place. But I will get to that later.

 

 

 

Mat 25:31

¶

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

 

 

 

Please notice when Jesus does return it will be upon His throne, but where?

 

 

 

Mat 25:32

 

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

 

 

Now, I can tell you one thing you will not have in Heaven and that is Nations. They are on the Earth. His throne will be here on this Earth and not in Heaven as some speculate.

 

I want you to notice Matt. Ch 24: very close.

 

 

 

Mat 24:16

 

Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

 

When events get really bad God has given instructions for those in Judea to flee to the Mountains. Go and get away from the trouble that is coming.

 

 

 

Mat 24:20

 

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

 

 

God is giving advise to individuals on what they should do in that area, and that He hoped it would not be on a Sabbath day for them to have to take that journey for it was forbidden to travel at that time.

 

 

 

Mat 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

 

 

This is talking about the time we now live. About our Generation although some may not believe it. It is called “Great Tribulation”, great distress on all people. This is where we come to the truth about the “ Rapture” and we will show that it will not happen as has been taught.

 

 

 

Mat 24:27

 

For as the lightning come’s out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

 

One will notice when Jesus Christ will return, it will not be secret in nature, but will be as lightening in the sky. He will come with great power and might, not as a tip toeing whispering nothing.

 

But at what time will this happen? Notice.

 

 

 

Mat 24:29

¶

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

 

When will this happen? Immediately after the what? After the Great Tribulation.

But notice, Jesus has not come at this time, during the Great Tribulation, but after it.

 

 

 

Mat 24:30

 

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

 

And then when? And then AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION. How plain this is.

 

Now notice what happen next.

 

 

 

Mat 24:31

 

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

Jesus Christ comes after the Great Tribulation And not before.

 

 

 

Many are being given the wrong information and are heading for tremendous hardships and do not know it.

 

 

Revelations describe a time that those who trust in Him and are His Elect will be in a place of protection and it will be on this Earth, not in Heaven when the Tribulation does happen. The rest of mankind will have to face The Beast System.

 

Notice:

 

 

 

Rev 12:14

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach.

 

 

 

Women in this regard is the End Time Church or Gods Elect. They will escape the Tribulation by preparing from what Gods word has given them the knowledge of doing.

 

Just to set back and say “ God will take care of us” and whisk us away is not a good thing to do for your Children. There are events coming that you do not want them to go through and what you believe about a Rapture is not going to help at all. God has given instruction all through His word but the problem is individuals do not want to hear the truth. They want smooth things taught to them. Things that fit their life style. They don't want to hear that they will have to change their way of thinking to follow God, they want what they have been taught and nothing else will do.

 

And yes, we can know when time is near if we will just let God guide us. But First we have to seek Him and all His ways and then He will show us the true way.

 

Time is on the door step when all of man kind will fall because of not following God and His ways. It is not to late to repent and to be part of the Elect. Think about it.

 

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www.americasfinaldaysprophecy.org

 

[Floatingaxe]

freeman~

 

The Rapture of the Church is not the second coming of Christ.

 

Do you mean WW3 or WWIII, because 111 means a whole lot of world wars.

 

The woman of Revelation (not Revelations) is Israel---always was and always will be.

 

This:

They want smooth things taught to them. Things that fit their life style. They don't want to hear that they will have to change their way of thinking to follow God, they want what they have been taught and nothing else will do.

 

...has nothing to do with what anyone's eschatological point of view is, so you are making false judgments about people. therefore those who know Christ and are pre-Tribulational in their views are still saved and following after the "true way". Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

[enoob57]

freeman~

 

The Rapture of the Church is not the second coming of Christ.

 

Do you mean WW3 or WWIII, because 111 means a whole lot of world wars.

 

The woman of Revelation (not Revelations) is Israel---always was and always will be.

 

This:

 

 

They want smooth things taught to them. Things that fit their life style. They don't want to hear that they will have to change their way of thinking to follow God, they want what they have been taught and nothing else will do.

 

...has nothing to do with what anyone's eschatological point of view is, so you are making false judgments about people. therefore those who know Christ and are pre-Tribulational in their views are still saved and following after the "true way". Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

He's using roman numerals... WWI, WWII, WWIII

[Floatingaxe]

 

He's using roman numerals... WWI, WWII, WWIII

 

 

 

He was trying to, but didn't.

[missmuffet]

We know Moses died. So when we see Moses on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus did He wake him up? Was the thief REALLY with that day in Sheol/Hades or was Jesus being metaphorical?What about all the souls with Him in Revelations 7 (many saved Christians slaughtered during the reign of Anti-Christ). He could not have come yet as the Bible says the Anti-Christ will be consumed by the brightness of His coming...so the resurrection/rapture (which according to Jesus and Paul happens at the coming...the parousia) could not have occurred yet they are conscious and even speak...Hmmm? Before His death, burial, and resurrection the body went to the grave but the soul went to Sheol...some to the place of outer darkness (like the Richman) and others to Abrahams bosom (the place for the righteous dead where Lazarus was), but after the finished work, for believers to be absent from the body (the who) is to be present with the Lord.

Brother Paul

I always believe that we should take the Bible literal as much as we possibly can.We can spiritualize the Bible to death and then we have all kinds of weird beliefs.

[letstalkbible]

 

 

The believers are in heaven right now.The unbelivers are in shoel/hades Luke 16:22-23 waiting their final judgment and then they will be banished to hell which is their final place of punishment/torment.

The scripture does not say that the believers are in heaven, else there wouldn't be any need for a rapture (please read 1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17, they are however in a place, the believers in a place of rest and unbelievers in hell. The dead are asleep (St John 11: 11-14). as to the part about being conscious, I believe that they are not conscious of what is happening on earth Eccessiates 9:5-6) but to some extent apart of them liveth.

 

Where is that place of "rest" you are talking about?If the believers are not in paradise or heaven then where are they?The unbelievers are waiting their judgment in Sheol.No one will go to hell until after the judgment.I do not think the believers are in paradise any longer but in Heaven with Jesus.

 

 

yes there are in paradise.paradise is not heaven. Its a place of rest. this place was near hell (remember the story when Saul went to the witch?). The story which Jesus told in Luke 17 speaks to where they are. Remember also the bible said the death and HELL will be thrown into the lake of fire, this is the second death. Thats in revelation 21. don't have my bible near me right now to give exact scriptures

[letstalkbible]

 

 

The believers are in heaven right now.The unbelivers are in shoel/hades Luke 16:22-23 waiting their final judgment and then they will be banished to hell which is their final place of punishment/torment.

The scripture does not say that the believers are in heaven, else there wouldn't be any need for a rapture (please read 1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17, they are however in a place, the believers in a place of rest and unbelievers in hell. The dead are asleep (St John 11: 11-14). as to the part about being conscious, I believe that they are not conscious of what is happening on earth Eccessiates 9:5-6) but to some extent apart of them liveth.

 

 

 

Yes, the scriptures teach us that when we who are believers die, we are instantly with our Lord. It has no bearing on the Rapture, in which the BODIES of the dead in Christ will rise with their new physical bodies, and be united with their spirits.

 

The dead are NOT asleep. The only reason you see 'sleep' in scripture in reference to death is that it was the ancient description of what physical death is.

 

show me scripture to say they are instantly with the Lord, then i will believe. What the bible however says is that when Jesus returns then both the dead and living will rise to be with him  1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17. The word sleep in the scripture when talking about dead is just a change of word. This shows that apart of them, that is their spirit is alive, but they are not conscious of what's happening on earth, just like when your asleep, apart of you is conscious but your not aware of your environment or whats happening on earth.

[Floatingaxe]

When Jesus died, He went to Paradise and emptied it out, as that was the place for the righteous dead who had put their faith in their coming Messiah. All believers from that point go directly to heaven to be with God---where Jesus is!

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

The believers are in heaven right now.The unbelivers are in shoel/hades Luke 16:22-23 waiting their final judgment and then they will be banished to hell which is their final place of punishment/torment.

The scripture does not say that the believers are in heaven, else there wouldn't be any need for a rapture (please read 1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17, they are however in a place, the believers in a place of rest and unbelievers in hell. The dead are asleep (St John 11: 11-14). as to the part about being conscious, I believe that they are not conscious of what is happening on earth Eccessiates 9:5-6) but to some extent apart of them liveth.

 

 

 

Yes, the scriptures teach us that when we who are believers die, we are instantly with our Lord. It has no bearing on the Rapture, in which the BODIES of the dead in Christ will rise with their new physical bodies, and be united with their spirits.

 

The dead are NOT asleep. The only reason you see 'sleep' in scripture in reference to death is that it was the ancient description of what physical death is.

 

show me scripture to say they are instantly with the Lord, then i will believe. What the bible however says is that when Jesus returns then both the dead and living will rise to be with him  1 Thessalonians 4: 14-17. The word sleep in the scripture when talking about dead is just a change of word. This shows that apart of them, that is their spirit is alive, but they are not conscious of what's happening on earth, just like when your asleep, apart of you is conscious but your not aware of your environment or whats happening on earth.

 

 

The bible clearly teaches that the dead in Christ go directly to God. Our confidence is in this:

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-8

⁶ So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. ⁷ For we live by believing and not by seeing. ⁸ Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.