young creation?

[JLW001]

God could have created the heavens and the earth in one day or instantly. So, why is there an emphasis on 6 days for creation and one day of of resting from creating? There is another verse in the bible that says that God is not bounded by time, it says that to God one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day.

Now is this a conversion factor? No. Its telling us that God is outside of time. He is not bound by time. Looking back on his creation men might say that this rock appears to be extremely old, billions of years. But that is only the case because we see processes bound by time. It takes a certain amount of time for water erosion to create a canyon. God could shape it instantly! And to us it would still look like it had taken millions of years.

I think that there are many things men look at and try to understand that can only be understood by making God part of the equation. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. So, if we want to understand something we must put God first and not limit him.

There's a lot of junk science being done today because men don't take the Lord into account. Biologists represent a large portion of the junk science, but there are other disciplines like cosmology and geology that are guilty of leaving God out and creating junk science. The theory of evolution is being taught and adhered to as if it were a law instead of a theory. Men interpret data without open minds or with the aim of proving their theory rather than aiming to find the truth.

We all know that God created the earth. We know he created all we see and things that we don't see. The key is not to turn our backs on science, but to watch what they do. When real science is done then we know that the data will prove God's existence, because his whole creation is His handiwork and the creation declares His Name and existence.

[Bread_of_Life]

What you are advocating is a God who used a method of creation that He denied using, but substituted a false way to make a symbolic story.

Old Timer - the bible describes the earth as a circle, which is 2 dimensional. Clearly given that the earth is very much 3 dimensional, this verse has been re-interpretive as figurative rather than directly informational in the light of fact.

Now, we have found out other facts along the way. For example, recently we found a human skull that we believe to be one of the first colonies of homo-sapiens ever to exist, in africa. It dated to around 195,000 years old. This is 189,000 years older than the bible, read literally, says that life and humans were around for. This is not an isolated find.

In fact, every single fossil ever found, other than the very few new fossils, have ALL predated literal biblical timescales. Every single one of them, without fail. Now, I have vociferously defended radiometric dating on this forum previously - but even without these defences - even if there were significant problems with these methods of dating, you'd think they'd get it right at least occasionally. You certainly wouldn't expect wonky methods to agree almost continuously, both on types of fossils and specific specimens.

Yet they do. We've found thousands of trilobytes, but never one dating in the modern. Not one. Not even close. In fact, we've yet to find a single one dated to less than 250 million years old. We've found thousands of dinosaurs. But not one, not a single solitary one that has dated younger than 65 million years old, the K-T boundary. And we've found plenty of human remains, but never one older than 200,000 years old. In fact, apart from a tiny portion of "fossil animals", we don't find any modern animals outside the modern period.

Is this all coincidence? Is it even explainable through supposed faults in dating methods? The answer is, life is old just as the earth is 3D. It's a fact of modern life, something that we're all going to have to get used to, something that many Christians have got used to, like Nebula. Perhaps one day you'll join them, just as you've joined the group who believe in a 3 dimensional earth?

[ajesuschrist_mathetes]

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:44:50 -0500

To: johnankerberg-list@johnankerberg.org

From: "John Ankerberg Show Staff" <ankews@johnankerberg.org> Add to Address Book

Subject: JAS News - News from The John Ankerberg Show

The John Ankerberg Show

a ministry of

The Ankerberg Theological Research Institute

NEW SERIES BEGINNING THIS WEEKEND!!!

Click here to order from this series

Dear Friends of the Ministry,

This weekend we will begin airing a brand new series entitled, "Are the Genesis Creation Days 24 Hours or Long Periods of Time?" We will examine what the Bible itself tells us about the creation of the universe, the earth, the plants, the animals, and man.

I have invited Dr. Walter Kaiser, President of Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, to be a guest for this series. Dr. Kaiser is thought by many evangelicals to be one of the world's most knowledgeable and esteemed authorities on the Old Testament and the Hebrew language. He was an advisor and contributor to the NIV Study Bible on the book of Exodus. He has contributed notes for other Old Testament books as well. He has written many scholarly books used by almost all of our evangelical Seminaries today. Second, I have invited astrophysicist, Dr. Hugh Ross.

I would like to ask you to do two things. First, watch this series. Second, after watching, let me know if the information presented from Scripture accurately addresses your questions. I hope it will.

Here are the questions we will answer:

Program 1: What is the meaning of the word "day" (yom) in Genesis 1 and 2?

[Keith]

I just posted this in another thread in this forum, but since it applies to this thread, I'll cut and paste it here, too.

----------

If you use the ages in Genesis chapter 5, and then calculate the time from there using Old Testament history, you will arrive at the conclusion that the Bible teaches the earth to be around 6000 years old. This seems to conflict with what modern scientists say.

Most scientists today teach that the earth is millions, if not billions of years old. There are two possible explanations for why the Bible and science seem to disagree: (A) The scientists are wrong. Some methods of dating that were in use a few decades ago are now viewed as unreliable by today

[Bread_of_Life]

Whysoblind,

No we do not have to get used to it, because your "evidence" is based on assumptions about past events, chemical compositions, rates, and other processes that are impossible to verify,

This is what you believe. Why don't you make a thread listing all the assumptions that you believe radiometric dating methods make that you think are impossible to verify.

I will then respond, telling you which really are assumptions, and how we have tested and verified them. Sound good?

[Keith]

Planetary geology teaches us that a planet cannot support life in its early stages of development. Therefore God created the earth at a point which it could immediately sustain life. As a result, the earth appears to be millions of years old when it is in fact only thousands of years old. God created Adam and Eve as full-grown adults, not as babies. If a scientist were to examine Adam right after he was created, he would say Adam is

[Bread_of_Life]

Whysoblind,

No we do not have to get used to it, because your "evidence" is based on assumptions about past events, chemical compositions, rates, and other processes that are impossible to verify,

This is what you believe. Why don't you make a thread listing all the assumptions that you believe radiometric dating methods make that you think are impossible to verify.

I will then respond, telling you which really are assumptions, and how we have tested and verified them. Sound good?

[JLW001]

Yes. For two reasons: First of all, he is God. He knew what he had in mind when creating everything. The "death" before the fall was constructive. By this I mean plants were created to renew themselves through shedding of leaves, and to provide food for animals and people. Second, Plants will even experience death(of a sort) in the eternity to come, as men will eat from the tree of life, which is a fruit yielding tree(the fruit, which is a developing plant, must die to be eaten). Man was created to "Till the earth."(Gen. 2:5), and Jesus himself used the analogy of a seed having to die in order to produce fruit.(Jn. 12:24).

Giving fruit does not require the death of a plant. God designed fruit to be eaten by animals and the seeds in the fruit would be transported by the animal to a new spot and then you have a new plant.

There was no death before the fall of mankind. I believe there is a verse in Isaiah that says during the millenium that the lamb, child, and lion will walk/sleep/something together and the lions will eat straw. The first time that we here anything of animal death is when Abel offers the finest of his herd to God.

All death is the result of man's fall by our father Adam. However, Jesus Christ is our new Adam and those that believe, adhere to and follow him are immortal because of His saving Grace. No longer are we descendants of Adam, but we are born again through and in Jesus Christ.

All men are doomed to die a physical death once. However, when we are changed or resurrected at Jesus' return, our immortality is shown. We believe things which are not, as if they are. I'm so excited by this! I'm almost overcome in my anticipation.

This is an appeal to those that do not believe. Why not just try Christianity? You believe in something of which you have no evidence now, so why not try believing Christianity. Go to a few churches and read the Bible some. Ask God for understanding. If God's not real, then you've lost a few hours on a couple Sundays and a few hours of reading a good book. Nothing more. If he is real then you will certainly have made the best decision of your life and you life will be transformed completely. Will all you problems go away? No. You'll likely have more problems as satan tries to get you to leave your new found faith. However, they Lord will be on your side and he will help you. Just try it. See what happens. If you've been in church before, try it one more time. I believe that churches are now leaving much of the religous traditions in the past and focusing on God's Word.

[Guest shiloh357]

Fine guys -

You study the Bible to learn about the Earth . . .

[Lekcit]

Shiloh,

The context DOES demand a literal day. Go back and read my previous posts and you will see that it does. And, surprisingly enough, it goes back to an understanding of Hebrew.

In Him.