Do Christians go to Hell?

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

 

Nix that last post, I had two threads up lol

 

And I answered after that one not this one (sorry!)

 

 

No biggie, I've done that too.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Not the one you were asking about (lol) but my reply I had already deleted after that.

 

You might have missed that one (it was a Kingdom response) verses an "I never knew you" response.

 

What don't you understand though, curious, I thought it agreed with you is why I ask.

[Elhanan]

 

 

The key words are found in John 10:"27"

²⁷ My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (And then what you posted...)

 

There are Christians who back slide and no longer listen to His voice, and no longer follow Him even though they still "know" Him. How can there be salvation without obedience?

 

 

Yes, and his sheep are the one's who have accepted Jesus into their hearts. Obedience is good, that's not what I'm saying. The Christian who denies their faith altogether are called apostates. They were never born again to begin with, they just played the part well. When a born again Christian backslides, he knows to turn away from sin, because the Holy Spirit will convict them of righteousness. John 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment. You cannot lose your salvation Hall7. His love for you is eternal.

 

Idk... It sounds too easy, but thank you for your input DRS81 .

 

 

 

Yes, and his sheep are the one's who have accepted Jesus into their hearts.

Nowhere in all of the NT do we find the phrase "accept Jesus into your heart."  When Jesus called his disciples he told them to FOLLOW ME which by necessity requires obedience.

 

Obedience is good, that's not what I'm saying

Obedience is not just "good" - it is mandatory.  Heb 5:9 " And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,"  Eternal salvation is only promised to those who

obey Him; the disobedient have no such assurance.

 

The Christian who denies their faith altogether are called apostates. They were never born again to begin with, they just played the part well.

By definition apostate means to defect from, or fall away from.  Logic dictates that one can only fall away from the faith only if they that they possessed that faith in the first place.  One cannot fall away from something that they never stood on or never believed in.

 

You cannot lose your salvation Hall7. His love for you is eternal.

Your claim directly contradicts Paul's warning to the believers in Rome: Rom 8:13 "for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

[Guest DRS81]

You cannot lose your salvation Hall7. His love for you is eternal.

Your claim directly contradicts Paul's warning to the believers in Rome: Rom 8:13 "for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

 

This says you must die, not that you must lose your salvaton. Besides, we already conquered our flesh at the cross when we accepted Jesus into our hearts.

[Guest man]

 

What don't you understand though, curious, I thought it agreed with you is why I ask.

 

 

 

You are correct. I misread your post. My bad.

 

Sorry.

[Elhanan]

 

You cannot lose your salvation Hall7. His love for you is eternal.

Your claim directly contradicts Paul's warning to the believers in Rome: Rom 8:13 "for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

 

This says you must die, not that you must lose your salvaton. Besides, we already conquered our flesh at the cross when we accepted Jesus into our hearts.

 

Paul's reference to "die" here means spiritual death i.e., loss of salvation.  How do we know that he doesn't mean physical death?  Because everyone dies physically -  whether they live according to the flesh or not.  And no - our flesh was not conquered at the cross - it is a daily spiritually battle to choose whether to walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit. If our flesh was already conquered at the cross then Paul would have no reason whatsoever to issue this warning/command to believers.  "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust the of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."  Gal 5:16-17

[Guest DRS81]

Paul's reference to "die" here means spiritual death i.e., loss of salvation.  How do we know that he doesn't mean physical death?  Because everyone dies physically -  whether they live according to the flesh or not.  And no - our flesh was not conquered at the cross - it is a daily spiritually battle to choose whether to walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit. If our flesh was already conquered at the cross then Paul would have no reason whatsoever to issue this warning/command to believers.  "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust the of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."  Gal 5:16-17

 

A born again Christian cannot lose his salvation. I'm sorry if that revelation upsets you. Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (Some prophets were called to preach obedience, and some were called to preach the good news of salvation.) I'm also done here because I rather not talk in circles. - DRS81

[Elhanan]

 

Paul's reference to "die" here means spiritual death i.e., loss of salvation.  How do we know that he doesn't mean physical death?  Because everyone dies physically -  whether they live according to the flesh or not.  And no - our flesh was not conquered at the cross - it is a daily spiritually battle to choose whether to walk according to the flesh or walk according to the Spirit. If our flesh was already conquered at the cross then Paul would have no reason whatsoever to issue this warning/command to believers.  "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust the of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."  Gal 5:16-17

 

A born again Christian cannot lose his salvation. I'm sorry if that revelation upsets you. Romans 6:4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (Some prophets were called to preach obedience, and some were called to preach the good news of salvation.) I'm also done here because I rather not talk in circles. - DRS81

 

I guess you must be a prophet to claim that I'm upset.  Not so, just disappointed that you can neither adequately defend your claims or even give a simple response specifically to my retorts.  Why is that?  

If you even bothered to take the time to read Rom 6:4 it does not support your view - in fact it states the opposite.  It says "we too MIGHT walk in newness of life."  It doesn't say we "are" or we "will."  In other words becoming a Christian does not automatically guarantee that one will walk in newness of life - only that they might.  Read the Bible for what it actually says - not what you think it says.

[Guest DRS81]

just disappointed that you can neither adequately defend your claims or even give a simple response specifically to my retorts.  Why is that? 

 

Because both Christians only see what they wanna see. These are called circled debates, and this is one of them. No scripture I give you will change your mind so...I've been to other forums where they pound this debate into the ground until all that's left is blood and hatred. And yes, I've learned my lesson.

[missmuffet]

I agree bopeep, but another of the basics that we must nor forget is that not everyone who claims to be a Christian, or thinks they are a Christian, will prove to be so at the judgement.

That is what I was trying to say.

[Elhanan]

 

just disappointed that you can neither adequately defend your claims or even give a simple response specifically to my retorts.  Why is that? 

 

Because both Christians only see what they wanna see. These are called circled debates, and this is one of them. No scripture I give you will change your mind so...I've been to other forums where they pound this debate into the ground until all that's left is blood and hatred. And yes, I've learned my lesson.

 

It only becomes a circled debate when someone refuses to deal with the text as you have demonstrated. You have made your points and I have counter-pointed each of your points.  Unfortunately you have not responded in likewise fashion instead ignoring some of my points when you could simply form you own counterpoint.  You keep claiming to read my mind which I find quite presumptuous on your part as I am open to other views as long as you can provide biblical warrant.  Hatred is not a foregone outcome - we can simply agree to disagree.  I just wish you would address and deal with the scriptural text more in order to have a productive discussion. But since you choose not to, that of course is your prerogative.