Recovery from legalism

[Page95]

I have to say that I have come out of legalism in the fact that I followed torah big time and I was bound by legalistic views sadly and I am thankful to have come away from this. When i was going down the torah route I was coming away from our father and my relationship with Him was not good at all but thankfully now I am back in the truth of Gods grace

[Widor1]

 

 

I don't quite understand your position.  That's why I asked you to answer my 2 questions to provide more clarity:

 

 

Yet, if a person "habitually sins for years" that person should not presume that he or she is still a Christian or "forever saved."  Agree or Disagree?

 

And how do you distinguish between works of the law and deeds of the flesh?

 

Personally, I believe that there are those who were never believers to begin with and thus remain unsaved, and those who were believers but for whatever reason fall away from the faith and thus lose their salvation.

 

 

Can you provide scripture that says born again believers can lose their salvation? From what I have studied (I could be wrong), there are unsaved sinners and saved sinners. Saved sinners are followers of Christ, are indwelt with the Helper, the Holy Spirit, who convicts and molds us to righteousness, to the likeness of Jesus. Saved sinners cannot lose their salvation. People either are saved, or they are not.

 

Heb 10:14  For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified

We will stumble and fall, because we are still on earth, still living in our fleshly bodies. We will continue to "be sanctified" until we leave this earth. The transformation that is taking place is a life-long transformation.

 

1Jn 3:6  Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

1Jn 3:9  Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 

Again, there are either saved sinners, or unsaved sinners. The Holy Spirit is stronger than we are.

 

Joh 10:27  My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 

Joh 10:28  And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

Joh 10:29  My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.

No one can snatch us away, not even ourselves.

 

1Co 5:1  It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father's wife! 

1Co 5:2  And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 

1Co 5:3  For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 

1Co 5:4  In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 

1Co 5:5  deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This man, who "has his father's wife," is a saved sinner. If not, why would Paul tell the church to deliver him to satan, so his spirit may be saved? 

 

Heb 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 

Heb 6:5  and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 

Heb 6:6  if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Heb 6:7  For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 

Heb 6:8  but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. 

Heb 6:9  But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.

This sounds to me like the Parable of the Sower. See below:

 

Luk 8:5  "A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it.  

Luk 8:6  Some fell on rock; and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. 

Luk 8:7  And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. 

Luk 8:8  But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold." When He had said these things He cried, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" 

Luk 8:9  Then His disciples asked Him, saying, "What does this parable mean?" 

Luk 8:10  And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that 'SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.' 

Luk 8:11  "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 

Luk 8:12  Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. (Not saved)

Luk 8:13  But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. (Not saved)

Luk 8:14  Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. (Not saved)

Luk 8:15  But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. (Saved through Christ Jesus)

 

The people in Hebrews that the author was describing in verses 4-6 were not saved. They were enlightened by the Word, had tasted the gifts of God, but they did not have any fruit, did not take up their cross, etc. We know this because in verse 9 the author tells the audience that they are confident of better things for the listeners, things that accompany salvation.  In the parable of the sower there is only one scenario where the seed took root and produced fruit... just like a good tree cannot produce bad fruit. There are either saved sinners, or unsaved sinners.

 

Mat 7:16  You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 

Mat 7:17  Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 

Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 

Mat 7:19  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 

Mat 7:20  Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Edited July 23, 2013 by Widor1