other moral values

[Leonard]

Kuad: Harry Truman said it best: If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. When you hop in trashing what is good, and somebody replies, showing that your views are nonsensical, and even destructive, you play the wounded cormorant?

WELCOME TO THE KITCHEN!!!

[OneAccord]

The "government" was never intended to be a goody two shoes doling out OUR money to any and everyone that has a need. You would do well to study just what the government is all about starting with the selection of Saul as King of Israel. Concluding with Jesus comments to Pilate in the NT. You might learn something.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually you would need to back up to Samuel's oration BEFORE the selection of Saul.

God never wanted to give them a king at all, and He warned them sternly through the mouth of His prophet Samuel what would happen:

1 Samuel 8:10 So Samuel spoke all the words of the LORD to the people who had asked of him a king.

11 He said, "This will be the procedure of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and place {them} for himself in his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots.

12 "He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and {some} to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots.

13 "He will also take your daughters for perfumers and cooks and bakers.

14 "He will take the best of your fields and your vineyards and your olive groves and give {them} to his servants.

15 "He will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards and give to his officers and to his servants.

16 "He will also take your male servants and your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys and use {them} for his work. 17 "He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. 18 "Then you

will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the

LORD will not answer you in that day."

Also, I think the tone in which many of you are addressing a newcomer to this board is quite telling.

[Guest kuada]

Thanks for all the advice about my illness. I don't mean to be insulting, but i've had it for 14 years, and i've heard all theses things before. God and I have long since worked out what it means between us, and how i should respond to it personally.

however, that doesnt address my issue of having to pay $1200/month for prescriptions. for some reason, some of you seem to have presumed that i am a homeless person or a welfare type person. i come from a middle class family. that's my point. the health care system isn't bad for the poorest. they can get on welfare. it's those of us who make "too much money."

Dad Ernie wrote: [The "government" was never intended to be a goody two shoes doling out OUR money to any and everyone that has a need.] But who should help me? should i go further into debt every month (which i do) b/c i can't afford my medications? (besides this, i find dad ernie's comments extremely cold and uncaring. i can hardly imagine Christ making such a comment. he would give me the shirt off his back, and the blood from his veins to help me. God forbid you help someone with a need with YOUR money. isn't it MY money too?).

my real point is not so much about my one problem, although in a way it is. my point is about the health care system that isn't benefitting the middle class. the premiums are outrageous, then if you can pay them, the deductible is like $1000, so you might as well not have it at all. then the insurance companies always have 10,000 excuses on why they limit how much they pay on claims (mega life and health is the worst--they never have paid a single claim in 7 years w/o me having to fight for it so don't get coverage with them!). you hear about families going bankrupt to pay for treatment. bush talked about seniors choosing between groceries and medication. but younger people do that as well. i dont know how many times i've had to eat peanut butter!

this is an intricate political problem. i'm not asking any christian to come up with a solution, just to at least admit that this is a problem in our country that our politicians should be addressing--all of them, both democrat and republican. i am still convinced that God is moved in his heart about this problem that affects a lot of people, even if it doesn't effect you personally.

[nebula]

Hey, kuada!

After reading your last posts, I went back to the OP to assess if I had misread what you said in the beginning.

Well . . .

I am having a hard time discerning what point you mean to drive home.

The OP does address the health care issue.

(Just so you know, I am a registered Republican. But I am a part-time student and part-time emplyee. I have no health insurance. Yet I have hypothyroidism and some form of rheumatoid arthritis. Both of these need doctors visits and medication. I also had surgery last March to get a tumor removed, and I am having to pay all these out-of-pocket. I voted for Bush.)

Yes, I would love for a better system to take care of me!

Yet, it sounds from your OP that the health care issue was used as a reasons for why you are angered at Christians for voting for Bush.

Would you please clarify this?

[Can Do (Phil 4:13)]

Wow, some of us here at WC are good at slamming someone when we don't agree. You guys should LOVINGLY rebuke those you don't agree with, not openly and angrily shove your opinions down their throats. My goodness

I am both shocked and disappointed at some (not all) of the responses here.

Faith

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Kuada,

I agree with Nebula. Certainly our health system is in bad need of a major reorganization, but this wasn't caused by Bush or even Conservatives on the whole. It existed long before our current era.

I sympethize with you and everyone who has to deal with the "system". I just don't get how you or anyone else can assign fault to anyone. It is big business and big government that has created much of the problem, but also much of the problem can be laid at the feet of liberal judges who have awarded outrageous sums in lawsuits, driving medical fees out of control. Even driving many doctors out of business because of the high price of insurance. Our founding fathers never designed our government to meet all the needs of the people. Whether it be an illness, food, shelter, clothing or whatever, these things were to be handled by the family and friends and the local community.

Today's society has the attitude that the government is responsible for a person from cradle to grave and it is simply not so. It is the Democrats and the liberals who have fostered this idea. But what happens is that this creates "classes" where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I know we shall alway have this with us to a degree, but like I said you can't lay the problems we have at the feet of the Republicans.

If you think you can create a better "system" of government, then you ought to start a grass roots movement and perhaps even elect yourself as President.

As I mentioned in a prior post, I really do not take kindly to people coming onto the Forum with an Agenda. The least you could do is pose a question once in awhile, perhaps add some comments and feel out the community FIRST before attempting to AIR your views on a particular subject matter.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

this is an intricate political problem. i'm not asking any christian to come up with a solution, just to at least admit that this is a problem in our country that our politicians should be addressing--all of them, both democrat and republican. i am still convinced that God is moved in his heart about this problem that affects a lot of people, even if it doesn't effect you personally.

I'm just jumping in at the end of this so please excuse me if this is not in context of the discussion...but....the problem is that politician's GOT INVOLVED in the first place. The original intent was to help those who couldn't help themselves...but it became an entitlement under LBJ's "Great Society" program and suddenly folks started thinking it was "free" because someone else was paying for it.

If we could COMPLETELY get out of running the health care system (and paying for it with government money) there would be a return to competition for patients which would bring prices down and quality up.

I don't think there will ever be the political will to do this however...so we will only continue to go further into the mire.....and are sunk.

[Leonard]

God forbid I should get a disease that is going to cost $1200 a month. The $300 or so I have to spend on prescriptions now is high. If I got such a disease, I would simply die unless God healed me, or a group of benefactors CHOSE to help me.

It is wrong to take my neighbor's money for my own purposes....

[OneAccord]

The "government" was never intended to be a goody two shoes doling out OUR money to any and everyone that has a need. You would do well to study just what the government is all about starting with the selection of Saul as King of Israel. Concluding with Jesus comments to Pilate in the NT. You might learn something.

God forbid I should get a disease that is going to cost $1200 a month. The $300 or so I have to spend on prescriptions now is high. If I got such a disease, I would simply die unless God healed me, or a group of benefactors CHOSE to help me.

It is wrong to take my neighbor's money for my own purposes....

Our founding fathers never designed our government to meet all the needs of the people. Whether it be an illness, food, shelter, clothing or whatever, these things were to be handled by the family and friends and the local community.

Today's society has the attitude that the government is responsible for a person from cradle to grave and it is simply not so.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OA,

How can you possibly say that a righteous Christian government has no business caring for the poor?

Since when did we acquire a "righteous Christian government?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie