Religious Tolerance

[followerofjesus]

I'm sorry to disappoint you again, but one does not need to read the bible to understand the difference between killing and murdering. As far as I know, animals do kill, but do not murder. Murder is a uniquely human attribute. And I do not know why humans do this. What do you think?

No you do not disappoint me. How do you come to your conclusion of the difference? How are morals based ? I think that humans commit murder due to the sinful nature of man. I learn from my teacher. Who is your master?

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of

God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the

power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to

themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.

Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt

have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if

thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is

the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience

sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers,

attending continually upon this very thing.

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear followerofjesus,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

No you do not disappoint me. How do you come to your conclusion of the difference? How are morals based ? I think that humans commit murder due to the sinful nature of man. I learn from my teacher. Who is your master?

I cannot explain the difference why humans murder and animals don't. Is it a flaw? I cannot accept that the cause is what you term as the "sinful nature of man." You cannot explain something by defining it the same thing as the problem. ANALOGY: Humans murder because they possess substance X, which makes them murder. Substance X is not an explanation in and of itself. I think what is more useful is to understand the reasons or the passions that led to the behaviour.

Morals are based on societal culture. Different societies have different morals. In most societies, murder is considered wrong, but killing is permitted (in most states).

I was born outside of slavery, so I have no master. I too learn from my teachers and my parents and those that I respect.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Budman]

Hello UF,

Thanks for your replies. I have heard/read the arguments you raise for the existence of a god many times before. And I am sure you may have heard the rebuttals to each and every one, many times before. I would rather not debate it. Suffice it to say that I and others continue to disbelieve

OK, I will respect your decision.

If you are curious to my personal take on each of your arguments, I would be happy to communicate via PM, as I am sure the admins would not appreciate me writing things that could cause one to doubt.

First, I don't think the "admins" will mind if we debate the existence of God here, as long as we are civil.

Second, there is nothing wrong with a little doubt. (Remember Thomas?) It is a great catalyst for seeking out satisfying answers. Plus, I don't think there is anything you can present, that hasn't been presented many times before, that will cause any Christian to abandon faith in their Saviour, and bring Christianity crashing down around our ears.

warm regards

-bud

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear budman,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

First, I don't think the "admins" will mind if we debate the existence of God here, as long as we are civil.

Second, there is nothing wrong with a little doubt. (Remember Thomas?) It is a great catalyst for seeking out satisfying answers. Plus, I don't think there is anything you can present, that hasn't been presented many times before, that will cause any Christian to abandon faith in their Saviour, and bring Christianity crashing down around our ears. 

Thanks for your reply and your permission to respond to your questions here on the board. I will take your arguments one at a time. You said:

In addition to the Biblical arguments for God

[Budman]

Hiya UF,

Now, to be fair, and to know just where you stand, I'd like to ask you what is your proof that God doesn't exist?

warm regards

-bud

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear budman,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

Now, to be fair, and to know just where you stand, I'd like to ask you what is your proof that God doesn't exist?

Thanks for your reply.

There is no proof that any god doesn't exist. I have not seen any proof that Jehovah, Yahweh, Allah, Mithra, Isis, Osiris, Zeus, etc. do not exist. So, yes, given that there isn't proof that any god doesn't exists, there always will be the possibility that any one or more exist.

Please do not misunderstand me. I have never claimed that any god does not exist. All I have claimed is that I do not have any beliefs that any god/s exist. Now for your question.....why have you chosen your god over others?

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[Budman]

Now for your question.....why have you chosen your god over others?

What convinced me that the God of the Bible was the one true God? I discovered that all other teachings, that involve a god, say that man must somehow earn his own salvation. He must do his part so he can deserve it. That God will only go so far to save you, and you must do the rest. You have to WORK for it.

The Bible teaches that there is absolutely nothing you can do to earn salvation. You could never be good enough to deserve it. The Bible says that salvation is a free gift from the God who loved you enough to die for you, so that you may be reconciled to Him.

That is true love.

That is the true God.

warm regards

-bud

[UndecidedFrog]

Dear budman,

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

The Bible teaches that there is absolutely nothing you can do to earn salvation

Thanks for your reply. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong, but I always thought that in order to earn salvation (the christian version), one must indeed do several things. These are at a minimum:

1) Believe in Jesus Christ as lord and saviour

2) Repent one's sins

3) Baptism (controversial)

The above items, in my opinion at least, are not considered "doing nothing." Am I incorrect? If I need not do those items above, am I considered saved?

I have also learned from threads right here on these message boards that the above items are not enough. That living a life just believing is an empty life if not accompanied by what some christians call "works." How can you interpret these requirements as doing nothing? Isn't that just false advertisement?

Regards,

UndecidedFrog

[larryt]

Hi UF,

Just a point I think you missed and then please continue.

The Bible teaches that there is absolutely nothing you can do to earn salvation

Yes there are things we must do but we cannot earn salvation. That would be telling God that we deserve salvation and that He owes it to us. Neither of which is true.

Regards

LT

[UndecidedFrog]

This is just my opinion. You don't have to accept it if you dislike it. DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian.

As I understand larryt, you cannot do anything to earn salvation, however, in order to even be considered for salvation, you are required to do several things. This is not that different from other religions who claim some reward, contingent as it may be.

Regards,

UndecidedFrog