Incarnation vs Demon Possession vs Holy Spirit Indwelling

[JohnD]

Right off the bat, I'd say that incarnation is the way the spirit and the body come together as the unique individual that is every human being in the first place. 

 

In the case of Jesus, his Spirit is God the Word.

 

That the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is by invitation of the humans he indwells.

 

Demon possession is generally uninvited, or invited by the unwise. 

 

In the case of what some consider to be Satan incarnate (the antichrist), we must consider the limitations of the evil one.

 

The book of Job shows he is capable of great influence and apparently (when God allows) has control over certain weather...

 

But he does not have omnipotence, all power. He does not have omnipresence, the ability to be in more places than one at a time. Nor is he omniscient, all knowing, able to read minds (although he is good at figuring out what is on most folks' minds because we are evil and not as complicated as we like to think we are).

 

So...

 

This antichrist / false prophet / dragon thing going on in the Great Tribulation / book of Revelation... is he or are they described as anything more than a resurrection of Judas Iscariot?

 

Luke 22:3 (KJV)
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

 

John 13:26-27 (KJV)
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

 

There is no reason to believe this was a temporary visit. There is a verse that seems to indicate evil spirits have the ability to enter into a human or animal at will and to depart at will... in Matthew 12 and Luke 11... but upon closer examination the Greek speaks more of an exorcism (exerchomai) than a simple departure. It is in the context of Jesus saying he cannot have a demon as the Jews accused and cast out (ekballo the typical Greek word for exorcism) demons and that kingdom not fall. He obvious cast out demons.  The point being of the man who did nothing to prevent the return of the evil spirits (namely become a Christian and be indwelt by the Holy Spirit) with application to the generation in the Matthew 12 version. 

 

But what about Jude 6?

 

Jude 6 (KJV)
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

Does this mean the fall? Or being cast down from heaven with Satan?

 

If so, where did all the demons who possessed men and animals and who opposed Jesus come from?

 

Or is it rather a reference to the possessing a host (human or animal) and being bound to that host until its death and then being imprisoned in the abyss?

 

1 Peter 3:18-20 (KJV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Noah was perfect in his generations (genes) having no tainted lineage involving ancestors possessed by demons. Is this a testimony here that the campaign of Satan to so taint the human race and prevent the lineage of Messiah was so successful that only 8 or few more than 8 (though only 8 obeyed the Lord) in all the billions and billions who lived 800 - 900 years old (that's a lot of potential begetting...)...?

 

Isaiah 14 mentions the destination of the man who caused such desolation was in the sides of the pit (inside the pit). Luke 16 describes this place as having an area for the dead of promised and hope (Abraham's Bosom) and the area of the condemned with no hope... separated by a great gulf or abyss. The inside of the pit.

 

When Judas Iscariot killed himself (in my estimation he did it because the rage of Satan within him was too much to bear) did he and the devil go to the inside of the pit (Isaiah 14)? Acts 1 says he went "to his own place."

 

And is this what is referred to in Revelation 20 as the devil being bound by a great chain for 1000 years (a Greek expression of a very long time rather than a precise amount of time)?

 

To be freed for the little while we know as the 70th Week of Daniel? At the end of which time he rallies the whole world to destroy Israel with the valley of Meggido as the staging base?

 

Is this release the return of the son of perdition???

 

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

If so... it would explain a lot.

 

Revelation 13:1-10 (KJV)
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

If Judas Iscariot came back from the dead and prove scientifically (blood content DNA etc) he is who he says he is... would not every human being believe him that is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Jesus said in Matthew 24 that if it were possible this liar would deceive the very elect... Remember you are talking about skeptics, other religions, atheists... And they would believe his lies about who Jesus was and who he will claim to be God above every god (2 Thessalonians 2:4 above).

 

John 5:43 (KJV)
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

The word "if" is an unfortunate translation of the Greek word (ean) which can be translated "though"

 

John 5:43
43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: {THOUGH} another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

 

This is the one who will affirm the holy covenant (Old Testament Judaism) for seven years and break the covenant in the middle of the seven years...

 

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

If you think about it, how else would the Jews who reject Jesus be on board with this fellow?

 

There are other hints...

 

Zechariah 8:23 (KJV)
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

These are the ten kings in Revelation 17 and 18. Doesn't say God is with this Jew... just says these ten men heard that God is with him...

 

BTW this is not disparaging the Jewish people that the Antichrist is Jewish. Remember that the Christ is Jewish too. Think of it as Israel is the vehicle or the stage in which the Lord arranged that the war between he and the devil would be waged. It's "in house." so to speak. 

 

And if anyone hasn't figured out by now that God still honors his oaths to the Jewish people... you need to read the Bible more carefully... beginning with:

 

Romans 11:28 (KJV)
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

[Guest ninhao]

If Judas Iscariot came back from the dead and prove scientifically (blood content DNA etc) he is who he says he is... would not every human being believe him that is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit? Jesus said in Matthew 24 that if it were possible this liar would deceive the very elect... Remember you are talking about skeptics, other religions, atheists... And they would believe his lies about who Jesus was and who he will claim to be God above every god (2 Thessalonians 2:4 above).

 

 

Hello JohnDB I have read some of your Judas Iscariot premises before. Can you show me how Judas may rise from the dead before the resurrection of judgement?

 

Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)

²⁷ And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Revelation 20:11-15 (KJV)

¹¹ And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

¹² And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

¹³ And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

¹⁴ And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

¹⁵ And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[BlessedByTheBest]

But what about Jude 6?

 

Jude 6 (KJV)

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

1) Does this mean the fall? Or being cast down from heaven with Satan?

 

2) If so, where did all the demons who possessed men and animals and who opposed Jesus come from?

 

1) this was not the fall, but a specific group of angels which willingly left their first estate for the sole purpose of engaging the daughters of men.  the context of this verse reveals their sin.

they are now bound in darkness awaiting judgement.

 

2) the disembodied spirits of their offspring( the Nephilim ).

[Sevenseas]

That the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is by invitation of the humans he indwells.

 

 

I might get confused on this one.  If, as scripture indicates we are sealed with the Spirit of God, and further indicates we do not need to 'speak in tongues' etc to be saved,

then is it really so that the Holy Spirit only resides by invitation and if so, are you including that premise in your quote above or do you believe that if we accept Christ as

our Savior, that is repent and are saved or at least see the need of Christ's sacrifice and apply it to ourselves,  that the Holy Spirit does in fact reside in us from that

day onwards?

 

 

 

Demon possession is generally uninvited, or invited by the unwise. 

 

The point has been made quite a few times in this forum that the scripture actually indicates that the person possesses the demon and not the other way around.  The term demon possession

has led to the unfortunate belief of some Christians thinking that the devil is done with them and can no longer involve himself in their affairs.  

 

I would also like to make the point that the devil does not cross any line that is not allowed by God Himself and with regards to demons (I'm not referring to Job as that appears, IMO, to be an

exception rather than 'normal procedure'.  Or rather, that most people will not be so personally approached by evil.)  There are always reasons for demonic attachment.

 

I'm not trying to pull apart your op...I just have questions regarding the above and I have not even read the entire post at this point.

 

Thanks...just wanting some clarification to help me understand what your thoughts are going into this long post.