Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved is Absolutely true

[niki23]

The song by Casting Crowns, Does Anybody Hear Her, is exactly like me. I love this song..

[niki23]

Just to let you all know. I have found my way. Yes, the depression lingers, it will always be there. But its no longer everyday. I have never felt loved, wanted or needed in my whole life. I was rejected everywhere I went, school and at home. But God gave me 3 little girls, who all look exactly like me (and act like me, lol) god, gave me a reason to live, He gave me something to love, and little mini me's to want and need me. Children really are a gift from God. Having my girls wasn't done the right way, but he still gave them to me. I could have been one of those girls who can't have kids. So, I defiantly feel blessed. Thank you for all your concerns and thank you for caring and if I need some one to talk too I will defiantly think of you. Thank you.

I'll probably have trouble finding the right church but I am the church (also my kids), God is my preacher and teacher, and hopefully someday I will find a group of believers to be a good influence and friends to me, but I think God will give them to me if its meant to be.

[enoob57]

Yes Prayers.... those little ones need to be schooled by God's teachers of His Word.

I wish you were here we would love you and the girls! Love, Steven

[Guest]

But God gave me 3 little girls, who all look exactly like me (and act like me, lol) god, gave me a reason to live, He gave me something to love, and little mini me's to want and need me....

 

Children really are a gift from God.....

 

I could have been one of those girls who can't have kids. So, I defiantly feel blessed....

 

 

Wonderful

 

Children are a heritage from the Lord, offspring a reward from him. Like arrows in the hands of a warrior are children born in one’s youth. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them. They will not be put to shame when they contend with their opponents in court. Psalms 127:3-5 (NIV)

[enoob57]

The perfect sanctification is when reliance upon God is so sure that as the

inflow of His Wonder, Spirit and Love you give witness of worship and willingness

to let all flow to the next and you become as the wind wills upon It's journeys-

John 3:6-8

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which

is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said

unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where

it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst

not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is

every one that is born of the Spirit.

KJV

For we know where our life has come and we know where our life is going it is the

faith that takes us in the journey from begin to end...

John 8:36

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

KJV

Love, Steven

[EnochBethany]

 

some people go to heaven while others go into the fire.....   and believing or not isn't mentioned as to who goes where...

 

 

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

NASB

 

 

Yep, I was raised being told that the Sheep & Goat judgment was what determined one's destiny, like it was the plan of Salvation (though in my church "salvation" was not a topic!).  Remember that while judgment is always by works, salvation is always by grace.  Moreover, salvation is first of all a transformation, new birth, metamorphosis in this life now, which includes eternal life.  Salvation is not an award that follows some judgment after you die, nor a judgment while one is alive on earth at Christ's 2nd Coming.

[other one]

 

 

some people go to heaven while others go into the fire.....   and believing or not isn't mentioned as to who goes where...

 

 

Matt 25:31-46

31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32 "And all the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? 38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39'And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they themselves also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

NASB

 

 

Yep, I was raised being told that the Sheep & Goat judgment was what determined one's destiny, like it was the plan of Salvation (though in my church "salvation" was not a topic!).  Remember that while judgment is always by works, salvation is always by grace.  Moreover, salvation is first of all a transformation, new birth, metamorphosis in this life now, which includes eternal life.  Salvation is not an award that follows some judgment after you die, nor a judgment while one is alive on earth at Christ's 2nd Coming.

 

It is just my conjecture that born again Christians are not among those being divided there....   At Christs return we are either resurrected or changed into different kinds of beings with different bodies.....    It is my conjecture that these are the people who never heard of Jesus, but I, so far, have not found any real proof of that.

[EnochBethany]

Well, Royal,

 

You say, "It is just my conjecture that born again Christians are not among those being divided there.... At Christs return we are either resurrected or changed into different kinds of beings with different bodies..... It is my conjecture that these are the people who never heard of Jesus, but I, so far, have not found any real proof of that."

 

At this Judgment, there are 3 groups mentioned: 1) Christ's brethren, 2) Sheep, 3) Goats.  The Sheep & Goats are from the nations of the world & judged for how they treated "Christ's brethren." The Goat are definitely among the condemned.  The Sheep are praised & enter the Kingdom.  By correlation with Rev 19-20, this event occurs right before the Millennium, & the Goats do not die, but enter the Millennium as unglorified, but saved persons.  No death of sheep is mentioned & their resurrection is not mentioned. 

 

We know from other scripture that the Church dead are raised at the Rapture (1 Thes 4).  But it appears that the Church is taken to Heaven after the Rapture (John 14).  But this judgment is related to setting up a Kingdom on earth.  By bringing in Dan 12, it appears that dead Israel is raised at the start of the Millennium, end of Trib.

 

Mat 24-25 has no Rapture & no Church.  The best way I know to put it all together is to put the Rapture before the Trib (end of 1 Thes 4 = Rapture; start of 1 Thes 5 = Day of the Lord/ Trib.

 

If you figure it out different from me, that does not worry me.

[Donibm]

It's not true.  In fact, it is a demonic lie.

 

It is only true when applied in its proper context.

 

For example, you posted that those who BELIEVE has everlasting life ... but we both know that belief alone CANNOT save. 

 

To "believe" means to "obey".  Right?  I mean, who believes ... and then doesn't follow the instructions?  That's like saying, "OK, I believe I'm going to Hell" ... but doing nothing to avoid the place.

 

 

This is why I hate the Calvanist theology.  Not only was John Calvin a brutal and violent man who killed people through false accusations, and trying to spread his DOGMA, but he was influenced by a man who was a Gnostic ... and every Bible student should know that the Early Church (50AD - 300AD) stood firms against the heresies of the Gnostics.

 

 

We are in agreement that as long as we do what He commands, our Salvation is sure.  HOWEVER, Scriptures also make it very plain:

 

 

1)

He who puts his hands to the plow and looks back, is not worthy of Me. - Jesus

 

Obviously, the person who puts his hands to work, IS INDEED a worker.  A hired laborer.  It is false for a Calvanist to suggest that they weren't saved to begin with.

 

 

2)

They have tasted the Heavenly Gifts, and the Spirit ... and are fallen back into the word.

 

Who but the saint can receive such things?  The world can't.  Only the born again believer can.  So again, Scriptures are very clear that a saved person can fall back into the world, and see damnation.

 

 

3)

Pig that is washed goes back to the mud.  Dog returns to its vomit.

 

The pig is WASHED, right?  But it fell back.  SAme thing occurs with a backslider.  They will

 

 

4)

Prodigal son was called DEAD and then "alive again".  Had he died "in his sins" he would have seen damnation.

 

 

5)

Remain in Me, and I will remain in you - Jesus

 

Remain is a present participle.  It means to CONTINUE.  And we clearly see that all who do NOT remain in Him will be cast away like a branch and burned in the fire.  This is about the Christian who backslides.

 

6)

He who ENDURETH to the end...

 

 

Sorry.  Gotta cut this short.  Rushing.  time for work

[saved34]

Don, when is a believer ever called a "pig" or a "dog"? It clearly says the pig was washed, and the dog returned to his own vomit. It does not say a sheep was washed. Christ calls us his sheep, and he will always rescue his sheep that may stray. When a believer sins he is not "turning back". To turn back is to deny the faith, or reject Christ as the only way. No, when a believer sins, (and he will) he breaks "fellowship" with his Father, but he is not lost or left to his own strength to stay saved.

 

1Jn 2:1  My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 

1Jn 2:2  He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 

 

If you as a believer say you do not sin, you are not being truthful with us or yourself, Don. 

 

1Jn 1:8  If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 

 

I also feel you err in the thought that the world cannot "taste the heavenly gift". It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict the world of sin and to present the truth of the Gospel to the unregenerate man. It is the only way he or she can hear and make a decision for Christ.

 

The verse from Hebrews cannot be talking about a genuine believer because the Spirit goes on to make a distinction in the following verses:

 

Heb 6:9  Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case--the things that have to do with salvation. 

 

John says those that leave us 'WERE NEVER OF US"

 

1Jn 2:19  They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 

 

Believers have the guarantee that they will overcome. There is no middle ground, you are not partially saved, you are either saved or you are not. Faith that is genuine will endure until the end, it will overcome the world. In Christ the believer is an overcomer. Nothing is left to chance, we will most definitely never perish, and we will defeat the world.

 

Joh 10:26  but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 

Joh 10:27  My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 

Joh 10:28  I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 

 

1Jn 5:4  for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 

1Jn 5:5  Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.