The Creationist

[Ninevite]

The creationist is a funny guy. While he may disagree with fellow creationists there is one thing that they all should have in common. When they look at the world they see order and intelligence.

 

To draw the conclusion that there must be an intelligent force responsible for the existance of the Universe is not a difficult leap. The creationists logic can be described as such: Nothing begets nothing, intelligence begets intelligence. The blind watchmaker just doesn't work.

 

You cannot use the laws of nature to create nature.

 

So the question becomes...

 

Did nothing create matter, order, life, intelligence and compassion? Or did some higher creative power give rise to what we have before us?

 

It is easy to get frusterated and pull your hair out, but hey...it can be fun as long as it stays calm, cool, and collected.  just thought I would share these thoughts with those who have trouble understanding the higher power crowd...it is an enormous crowd with many denominations across many continents worshipping many gods.

 

Regardless of anything else, the fact remains, higher power is the majority view.

[JDavis]

 

Did nothing create matter, order, life, intelligence and compassion? Or did some higher creative power give rise to what we have before us?

 

Hmmmm....which among the list of logical fallacies should I choose from?

 

Is it the fallacy of false dilemma, where you only allow two options?

 

Is it the fallacy of argument via straw man, where you describe the non-creationist position as "nothing created matter, order..."?

 

Is it the fallacy of begging the question, where you use the term "create" in describing the non-creationist position?

 

Or is it...

 

Regardless of anything else, the fact remains, higher power is the majority view.

 

 

....the fallacy of argument from popularity?

 

So many to choose from.

 

 

There is no false dilemma, either everything came from something or everything came from nothing.  There is no middle ground

 

and you should not complain about the strawman, you regularly misstated the Christian position

[JDavis]

 

There is no false dilemma, either everything came from something or everything came from nothing.  There is no middle ground

 

Sad that you are so limited in your thinking.  There is also the Hawking proposal where, since time itself began with the big bang, "everything" has always existed.

 

 

All that does is move the dilemma, changes nothing.

[JDavis]

No, it adds a third possibility.  So we have...

 

1) The universe "came from nothing".

 

2) The universe was created by a god.

 

3) The universe has always existed.

 

If the  universe has always existed there would have been no big bang. 

 

keep trying

[MarkNigro]

No, it adds a third possibility.  So we have...

 

1) The universe "came from nothing".

 

2) The universe was created by a god.

 

3) The universe has always existed.

1.  violates cause and effect, common sense, and some conservation laws.

3. No answer and universe has no cause. Violates cause and effect and common sense. Also entropy increases so universe cannot have existed forever.

 

2. Must be true, Universe created by GOD ALMIGHTY.

[Guest]

No, it adds a third possibility.  So we have...

 

1) The universe "came from nothing".

 

2) The universe was created by a god.

 

3) The universe has always existed.

 

~

 

Truth Be Told

 

1) Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

 

Science Has Nothing To Do With It

 

2) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

 

It's About The Battle For The Souls Of Mankind

 

3) Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

 

And For Their Children

 

4) And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mark 9:42

 

~

 

Man Puzzles And Sins And Says Surly There Is No God

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

Yet God Knew Men From Before The Start

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:19-20

 

And Still He Loves

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

And Calls

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. Isaiah 1:18

 

Can You Hear Him Yet?

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Mark 12:30

[Ninevite]

 

Did nothing create matter, order, life, intelligence and compassion? Or did some higher creative power give rise to what we have before us?

 

Hmmmm....which among the list of logical fallacies should I choose from?

 

Is it the fallacy of false dilemma, where you only allow two options?

 

Is it the fallacy of argument via straw man, where you describe the non-creationist position as "nothing created matter, order..."?

 

Is it the fallacy of begging the question, where you use the term "create" in describing the non-creationist position?

 

Or is it...

 

Regardless of anything else, the fact remains, higher power is the majority view.

 

 

....the fallacy of argument from popularity?

 

So many to choose from.

 

 

You should also no use the "popularity fallacy" as it is your favorite for trying to dismiss creationists as a minority.

[Fez]

You should also no use the "popularity fallacy" as it is your favorite for trying to dismiss creationists as a minority.

 

Where have I done that?

Post 2 would seem to point towards it.

[JDavis]

?????  Where in did I commit the fallacy of argument from popularity?

 

every time you argue for the theory of evolution by pointing out the majority of scientist support it you are committing this fallacy.

[Ninevite]

 

 

You should also no use the "popularity fallacy" as it is your favorite for trying to dismiss creationists as a minority.

 

 

Where have I done that?

 

 

 

So if a handful of scientists who are creationists is compelling to you, why then isn't the fact that the vast majority of earth and life scientists are "evolutionists" even more compelling?  I mean, I'm surprised to see a creationist try and argue from numbers of scientists. ~ Gerald McGrew post #41 "Are God's actions falsifiable?"

 

Furthermore, you seem to have trouble distinguishing the difference between the words "scientist" and "believe". Many scientists believe in a creator god. Being a scientist does not in anyway shape or form indicate one's beliefs. It simply means they are a scientist.

 

If a mathematician told you 2+2=5 would you believe him just because he is scientist?

Edited August 17, 2013 by Ninevite