The Two Witnesses Revelation 11

[enoob57]

 

 

Although fire coming out of their mouths reminds me of His word in them

 

Only because the LORD says,

 

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

 

And likewise here

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

And then we see here...

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Slain here means killed (even in this manner)

 

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

this is using Scripture to interpret Scripture an arduous journey but a very probable light upon the meaning!

 

 

 

 

Although fire coming out of their mouths reminds me of His word in them

 

Only because the LORD says,

 

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

 

And likewise here

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

And then we see here...

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Slain here means killed (even in this manner)

 

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

this is using Scripture to interpret Scripture an arduous journey but a very probable light upon the meaning!

 

 

 

That's what first come to me enoob, because after all our God is a consuming fire, even as His word is a fire. And God also said to Moses to go that He would go with his mouth. Jesus himself said to his disciples, For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

Its not lawful to kill a man, and so it speaks to the actual "manner" those who wish to hurt them must be killed (or slain) even as by the very same He said he has slain (even killed) them by the very words of his mouth.

 

The same concept is shown here

 

Exodus 23:32 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

 

And so again, any one who is not against you is on our part, its of any trying to hurt them

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Which speaks to the "actual manner" they must be killed, thus being killed with the words of His mouth 

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

They (on the other hand) appear to be killed after another manner (not the first) or so it seems. Perhaps just as the prophets were killed, Jesus was killed and the apostles were likewise killed. After all (even formerly) in one case Jesus tells them how those which killeth you (after such a manner in their case) will think they are doing a service unto God.

 

So maybe the being tormented by these two prophets is showing the peoples inability to endure sound doctrine and find themselves actually tormented by the message? Like speak no more of right things (that sort of thing). Something to consider is all.

 

I mean look at  Nadab and Abihu (the sons of Aaron) they two offered a strange fire before the LORD which he did not command them and they died on the spot. Or look at  James and John who also said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Who is one of the two some think its speaking of yet Jesus rebuked them telling them they knew not what manner of spirit they were of. Here they are using Elijah's example (as they understood). So there seems to be an unauthorized (strange fire) and speaking His word which is like a fire. One kills (to destroy mens lives) the other though one can be killed by the same has the power to save mens lives (even though it can get you killed) for speaking it.

 

Mostly my reason of your possible correct interpretation rises out of this

2 Cor 10:4-6

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5

casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,

bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all

disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

NKJV

The New Testament of The Christ's Revelation is one of completion by the great seal placed on the last Book

written and in this seal lies the proclamation of completion of The Word of God; This is important for the under-

standing of rightly dividing the Word as progressive revelatory information from Gen to Rev as to God's

Satisfaction of statement...We have all that we need now to be perfected for the ministry and in the fullness of

that communication lies weapons of a Spiritual nature that are able to produce God effects upon mankind with

His Word...  certainly God's Spirit 'IS' bound to The Word and The Word to His Spirit!   Love, Steven

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

 

 

 

Although fire coming out of their mouths reminds me of His word in them

 

Only because the LORD says,

 

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

 

And likewise here

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

And then we see here...

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Slain here means killed (even in this manner)

 

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

this is using Scripture to interpret Scripture an arduous journey but a very probable light upon the meaning!

 

 

 

 

Although fire coming out of their mouths reminds me of His word in them

 

Only because the LORD says,

 

Jerm 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD

 

And likewise here

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

And then we see here...

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Slain here means killed (even in this manner)

 

Hosea 6:5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

this is using Scripture to interpret Scripture an arduous journey but a very probable light upon the meaning!

 

 

 

That's what first come to me enoob, because after all our God is a consuming fire, even as His word is a fire. And God also said to Moses to go that He would go with his mouth. Jesus himself said to his disciples, For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

Its not lawful to kill a man, and so it speaks to the actual "manner" those who wish to hurt them must be killed (or slain) even as by the very same He said he has slain (even killed) them by the very words of his mouth.

 

The same concept is shown here

 

Exodus 23:32 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

 

And so again, any one who is not against you is on our part, its of any trying to hurt them

 

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

 

Which speaks to the "actual manner" they must be killed, thus being killed with the words of His mouth 

 

Jerm 5:14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

 

They (on the other hand) appear to be killed after another manner (not the first) or so it seems. Perhaps just as the prophets were killed, Jesus was killed and the apostles were likewise killed. After all (even formerly) in one case Jesus tells them how those which killeth you (after such a manner in their case) will think they are doing a service unto God.

 

So maybe the being tormented by these two prophets is showing the peoples inability to endure sound doctrine and find themselves actually tormented by the message? Like speak no more of right things (that sort of thing). Something to consider is all.

 

I mean look at  Nadab and Abihu (the sons of Aaron) they two offered a strange fire before the LORD which he did not command them and they died on the spot. Or look at  James and John who also said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Who is one of the two some think its speaking of yet Jesus rebuked them telling them they knew not what manner of spirit they were of. Here they are using Elijah's example (as they understood). So there seems to be an unauthorized (strange fire) and speaking His word which is like a fire. One kills (to destroy mens lives) the other though one can be killed by the same has the power to save mens lives (even though it can get you killed) for speaking it.

 

Mostly my reason of your possible correct interpretation rises out of this

2 Cor 10:4-6

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5

casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God,

bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all

disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

NKJV

The New Testament of The Christ's Revelation is one of completion by the great seal placed on the last Book

written and in this seal lies the proclamation of completion of The Word of God; This is important for the under-

standing of rightly dividing the Word as progressive revelatory information from Gen to Rev as to God's

Satisfaction of statement...We have all that we need now to be perfected for the ministry and in the fullness of

that communication lies weapons of a Spiritual nature that are able to produce God effects upon mankind with

His Word...  certainly God's Spirit 'IS' bound to The Word and The Word to His Spirit!   Love, Steven

 

 

 

Exactly, I agree whereas the others could very well be. Which could be one of the keys to bringing fire down in the "sight of men" (and perhaps what spirit that is of) per Jesus words?

 

I have used that verse before, but they said it was "out of context" of revelation where Gods prophets are using REAL fire.

 

But then again, I thought God is also a very REAL consuming fire, just the nature of our God isn't carnal either

 

I was going to post a picture of a man with real fire coming out of his mouth (like they do at a circus) because that would also count as a fire "in the very sight of men" but its not allowed here lol

Edited September 12, 2013 by AFlameOfFire

[Hippie333]

OneLight thanks for the words I know your heart is in the right place and are giving what you see as good advice.

Before the 3 years started I was a skeptic about God,then in those days at the start I had many confusing thoughts, to the extent I was almost unable to function at a normal level, I even said at the time I needed the help of a Theologian and a Physicist, I have been guided through the last 3 years in a circle that has lead to understanding the confusion by someone who knows better than any man, I even thought at the beginning that I was destined to become one of the two witnesses but again that was down to the confusion at the time and I now know better although this interpretation is the last piece of the puzzle I have been putting together. I have not tried to justify science into scripture that is just where my path has lead.

Why me? I can only assume because I have an open mind capable of lateral thought, free from the baggage of a scientific education and religious indoctrination, in other words I was open to being lead in any direction without question and intelligent enough to understand what I was being shown and I know from other forums this is a very rare trait, its as though my life has been all about this even the many years thinking the bible was a 2000 year old book that could not be trusted.

As I said before we will see if my prediction comes true, this will also prove to me whether God has been speaking to me or if I am just insane, but I know the words must come to pass and no-one will believe me until they do, its just a cross I have to bear. 

I now understand possibly to a greater extent than anyone how close to God we really are and that is closer than even you may believe. Everything is connected and to truly understand you need an understanding of everything, I believe I now know Gods purpose in creating our universe, how it was done, why we are here and where we are going, but that is going beyond the purpose of this thread. 

 

AFlameofFire The fire from the mouth in the biblical sense is the fire of truth.

 

I have been putting together.

1Co 3:19  For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

2000 year old book that could not be trusted.

The Bible is much older than 2,000 years - The New Testament alone is almost 2,000 yrs old.

Why me? I can only assume because I have an open mind capable of lateral thought, free from the baggage of a scientific education and religious indoctrination, in other words I was open to being lead in any direction without question and intelligent enough to understand what I was being shown and I know from other forums this is a very rare trait

I now understand possibly to a greater extent than anyone how close to God we really are and that is closer than even you may believe.

Pro 3:7  Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil

Gal 6:3  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself

Pro 11:2  When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.

Pro 16:18  Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

I believe I now know Gods purpose in creating our universe

Isa 43:7  Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

[Hippie333]

Thanks. I searched for the two witnesses using the search facility but it failed to find anything.

As I am unable to post in the thread referred to above I will post my thoughts here.

The two witnesses are not men they are the two theories that describe how the universe works, witnesses to Gods great wisdom, Quantum and Relativity.

How can I say this well the fire that comes from their mouths is the fire of truth. The beast that comes up from the abyss is gravity and the abyss a black hole.

will overpower and kill them, as I am sure most are aware Gravity is the stumbling block to joining the two theories together, its a beast through lack of understanding.

These two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth simply means nobody really understands them.

I am going to make a prediction based on the last part of the prophecy - Something is going to happen at CERN that will explain the severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed.

If this comes true I believe it will be the first time a correct prediction has been made based on biblical prophecy. 

 

Rev 11:5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

How would a man ( men ) be able to attempt to hurt Quantum and Relativity ?

 

Rev 11:6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

How are plagues, rain , and waters of blood relating to  - torment being nobody understands them? (B) If the two prophets are Quantum and Relativity - how do they stand on their own to be capable of torment by their own actions?

Rev 11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

How do Quantum and Relativity give the testimony of the Gospel>? (B ) or give a testimony of anything for that matter?

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

How does Quantum and Relativity die and lay in the streets for all to see, how do they have bodies?

 

So far, there has not been one person here - or in any of the 9 Bible commentaries I have read about this topic to remotely come close to your assertion of the meaning of these scriptures. All of their ( and my own for that matter ) studies on the subject confirm that the two prophets are actual men - as said in the scripture.

 I do please ask you to reconsider your statements and please be open to correction and understanding. Nobody here is making claims of absolute knowledge ( which you have ) or a higher understanding than any other ( as you have ) . I am not condemning you at all - I merely come to you as a fellow Christian - and out of love - to help shed more light on this subject with you, as the others here have. If you don't mind - might I ask - have you given your heart and mind to Jesus Christ as you own personal savior?

 

God Bless, 

 Hippie

 

 

 

 

 

[John 1-17]

 

God has been guiding the universe and us since the beginning of time. While the Bible is Gods word and tells us how to live the advancement of science has also been under Gods guidance, the great thinkers such as Newton and Einstein developed their theories under the guidance of God even if they did not realise it.

You may insult all you like, its not unexpected. I am not going against scripture, despite what people seem to think, I just have a deeper understanding of Gods purpose.

As the book of Revelation plays out so God will reveal himself, if I am to be part of that then so be it, it will happen as and when God decides.

 

 

Do you believe you're a prophet?

 

Nope. Do I believe I have been chosen for some reason, that is the only conclusion I can come to although being the false prophet is a bit of a worry. To be honest with how I know God I should be joining the ministry and giving my life to him but I know that that is not his intention.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Possibly the most important words in the Bible.

Hippie, you are looking at the words from our, mans, perspective not from the perspective of someone looking down on us and into the future, the words describe the vision given by God, I have been shown how to look from Gods perspective.

Where does it say they will give testimony of the Gospel, you are adding words to what is written, a fatal mistake, just as those who say the holy city is Jerusalem, again this is not said.

You see our universe as vast, I see it as smaller than a grain of sand in the largest desert on earth.

I am thankful that you all are trying to show me the right path as you see it, worried about my soul, I however have to follow the path I am being lead down and I know from personal experience over the last couple of years that I have no choice in the matter. As I have said before time will tell.

As you say no-one agrees with my interpretation, I did not expect anyone to, but remember everyone at one time thought the sun went round the earth.

I accept Jesus as the son of God sent here to save us, but as my own personal savior I have the Father.   

[Hippie333]

John1;17,

  Testimony is the Gospel - that's not adding words.....I ask you to reference how/ where/ and the context that "testimony" and "witness" are used in the Bible - the places of use - why it's said and the context it's used in. I am not adding words to the Bible - I am not making a fatal mistake. I am not looking from "mans" perspective - I am using the "Word of God" and being lead of the spirit to try to help you understand.

 

You are claiming to be a prophet with superior understanding - I do urge you to reconsider your statements

 

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

where also our Lord was crucified; that is, in the great city, which is fitly compared to Sodom and Egypt; for Christ was crucified actually in Judea, which was then become a Roman province, and under Pontius Pilate, a Roman governor, and by his order, and suffered a Roman kind of death, crucifixion, and for a crime he was charged with, though a false one, against Caesar the Roman emperor; and Christ has been crucified at Rome itself in his members, who have suffered persecution and death, and even the death of the cross there; and he has been crucified afresh, both by the sins and immoralities of those who have bore the Christian name there, and by the frequent sacrifices of him in the Mass. Moreover, by this periphrasis may be meant Jerusalem; and the sense be, that as the great city, or jurisdiction of Rome, may be spiritually or mystically called Sodom and Egypt, so likewise the place where our Lord was crucified, that is, Jerusalem; and that for this reason, because that as Jerusalem stoned and killed the prophets of the Lord, and upon the inhabitants of it were found all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, so in Rome, in mystical Babylon, will be found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon earth, Mat_23:35. The Alexandrian copy, the Complutensian edition, the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, and Ethiopic versions, read, "where also their Lord was crucified"; and the Arabic version more expressly, "the Lord of these two", i.e. the two witnesses.

[OneLight]

Let's look at Revelation 11:1-13

The Two Witnesses

Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

The Witnesses Killed

When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

The Witnesses Resurrected

Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

 

Now, let's compare scripture with what you are saying to see if what you present is true or not, just as those in Berea did with the teaching of Paul.

 

You say these two witnesses are Quantum and Reality, two scientific theories.  Scripture says they are two humans.  Since they both cannot be correct, which is correct?  Let's look at eh facts.

 

• Theories cannot produce fire out of their mouths, since they have no body or mouths.
• Theories cannot shut heaven for a period of time, but men can when led by God, as we read in James 5:17-18.
• Theories cannot cause water to turn to blood, but men led by God can as in Exodus 7:19-21.
• Theories cannot lay in the streets dead for the world to see, only physical people can, so that the world will rejoice over their death.
• Theories do not have the "breath of life" from God in them, only men do, as spoken of in Genesis 2:7.
• Theories cannot be seen ascending into heaven since they have no physical bodies, but men can so people can see them.

 

Revelation does have scripture that are symbolic in nature, as it also has scripture that is to be taken literally, as the Two Witnesses.  Everything about the two witnesses speaks of human beings.  Quantum and Reality do not have physical bodies to perform as scripture says the Two Witnesses will do.  There is no "deeper understanding" of these verses, only delusions that causes confusion.  The Holy Spirit will never teach against scripture.

[Fez]

John 1-17, on 28 Aug 2013 - 5:20 PM, said:

If this comes true I believe it will be the first time a correct prediction has been made based on biblical prophecy. 

Really?

 

Tell me what you think of Isaiah 53?

[Guest man]

I accept Jesus as the son of God sent here to save us, but as my own personal savior I have the Father.   

 

 

John 14

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

[enoob57]

The Scripture certainly speaks for Itself....