Desensitization

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

 

 

The problem I have with "what would Jesus do" type questions is that typically people just project their own biases onto what Jesus would hate so it doesn't do much for me. "Well Jesus wouldn't like that song so you shouldn't listen to it" type of thing. Unless it's obviously blasphemous or something it's not a very helpful consideration.

 

I suppose what it comes down to for me is, a lot of people seem to conflate being a Christian with having certain popular culture tastes, and I just don't go that way. If it's a matter in which it is clearly sinful, someone should be able to show me that from scripture. Short of it being universally sinful such that it can be shown scripturally, perhaps God will convict me of certain things I enjoy. I can certainly see that happening.Otherwise, a lot of this sounds like a lot of 'holier than thou' type of language based in personal tastes and biases.

 

 

I agree.

 

I have objections to Christians smacking the hands of other Christians simply because they feel uncomfortble with what others do.

 

Traipsing through the threads, I have come to expect that what one person may consider a great effront, another will observe as culture.

 

THAT, is why I think scritpure is our best guideline along with a conscience kept alive through a personal realtionship with God our Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ

through the Holy Spirit.

 

As Paul observed, the law serves to point out sin and where there is the law, is is more easily broken and the temptation to do so, actually increases.  In fact, in Paul's own

words, here is that observation:

 

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,  Romans 5:20

 

Pointing out every sin in the world does nothing more than increase the temptation.  Every day we sin...therefore, we realize the impossibility of pleasing God in our own flesh,

that is, the observaton of the law and wearing it like a crown of thorns on our head.  It simply does not work.  There is freedom from the law only in Christ Jesus and while

we are aware of our condition, we know that God's grace surpasses that condition and enables us to live in a fallen world...something that countless articles on how bad

it all has gotten (and going to get worse folks) does not do.

 

Yeah, I agree with you here.. and keeping in mind that what is okay for one person might not be for another, and vice versa. I have a real issue with the tendency to try to 'make law' stuff that isn't clearly delineated in the scripture. I don't think that gives enough credit to the wisdom of God or the guidance of the Spirit. I believe that if I am doing something that God does not want me doing, He will correct me. I am not against people giving me arguments for why they think an activity is wrong, but when they can't provide any solid scriptural reasons for it, why would I feel myself bound to their tastes or own personal convictions?

 

Well here's some scripture

 

Psalm 101:3  I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me.

 

1Chor 15:33  Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

 

Matthew 5:29  If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell

 

Galations 5:19-21  Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Romans 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

Matthew 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,

 

Romans 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them

 

Phillippians 4:8  Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

And as far as being holier than thou...no I dont think anyone here who is against TV means it that way...they are sharing thier thoughts.

 

Yes, that is definately Scripture, but in what way are you applying it?

 

If you want to give a dress code, say like the Amish, do you know that is what pleases God?

 

And what about women whose culture finds it perfectly acceptable to be naked from the waist up?  If you try to say God turns those women away, I would state that you are unequivacably

wrong.

 

You see the problem actually arises when one person tries to tell everyone else what they personally find offensive and in so doing, appear to have the impression that the rest

of Christianity should agree with that.

 

Providing verses does absoultey nothing as it is actually the HEART that God is trying to reach.  Anyone can make a set of rules as has been observed endlessly and tiresomely.

 

 

 

Phillippians 4:8  Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

 

I doubt that what I personally observe as just or honorable would necessairly be so for you or those who think that anyone who does not agree with the rather silly viewpoint

that National Geo photogs are nasty (or whatever was said exactly) .

 

I am firmly convinced that some people absolutely NEED to define a very narrow viewpoint in order to feel comfortable in their skin...that has nothing to do with the Word

of God and everything to do with personal experience and a failure to accept freedom in Christ...not to sin, but to relax and understand that we cannot define salvation

by rules or our own perception.

 

None of this has anything to do with salvation.  We are saved simply by believing, I think we all know that.  It is about avoiding anything that may cause us to stumble, or which may get in the way of living as Holy a life as we possibly can on this earth.  Not easy.  I smoke...cannot seem to break the habit, and when I do get dragged back in because my husband is also a smoker.  Something I am going to have to answer to God for.  Something that is a stumbling block to my faith.  If it were easy to quit, it would have been gone a long time ago   Does it affect my salvation...NO...does it affect other parts of my spiritual life, it sure does!

 

May I ask, do you thinking smoking is a sin? or is it something that you were personally convicted that you ought to stop? I have in mind something like the Spirit sanctifying us as individuals at different rates, with different individualistic focuses etc, depending upon our own weaknesses.

[BFP]

The problem I have with "what would Jesus do" type questions is that typically people just project their own biases onto what Jesus would hate so it doesn't do much for me. "Well Jesus wouldn't like that song so you shouldn't listen to it" type of thing. Unless it's obviously blasphemous or something it's not a very helpful consideration.

 

I suppose what it comes down to for me is, a lot of people seem to conflate being a Christian with having certain popular culture tastes, and I just don't go that way. If it's a matter in which it is clearly sinful, someone should be able to show me that from scripture. Short of it being universally sinful such that it can be shown scripturally, perhaps God will convict me of certain things I enjoy. I can certainly see that happening.Otherwise, a lot of this sounds like a lot of 'holier than thou' type of language based in personal tastes and biases.

 

 

I agree.

 

I have objections to Christians smacking the hands of other Christians simply because they feel uncomfortble with what others do.

 

Traipsing through the threads, I have come to expect that what one person may consider a great effront, another will observe as culture.

 

THAT, is why I think scritpure is our best guideline along with a conscience kept alive through a personal realtionship with God our Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ

through the Holy Spirit.

 

As Paul observed, the law serves to point out sin and where there is the law, is is more easily broken and the temptation to do so, actually increases.  In fact, in Paul's own

words, here is that observation:

 

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,  Romans 5:20

 

Pointing out every sin in the world does nothing more than increase the temptation.  Every day we sin...therefore, we realize the impossibility of pleasing God in our own flesh,

that is, the observaton of the law and wearing it like a crown of thorns on our head.  It simply does not work.  There is freedom from the law only in Christ Jesus and while

we are aware of our condition, we know that God's grace surpasses that condition and enables us to live in a fallen world...something that countless articles on how bad

it all has gotten (and going to get worse folks) does not do.

Yeah, I agree with you here.. and keeping in mind that what is okay for one person might not be for another, and vice versa. I have a real issue with the tendency to try to 'make law' stuff that isn't clearly delineated in the scripture. I don't think that gives enough credit to the wisdom of God or the guidance of the Spirit. I believe that if I am doing something that God does not want me doing, He will correct me. I am not against people giving me arguments for why they think an activity is wrong, but when they can't provide any solid scriptural reasons for it, why would I feel myself bound to their tastes or own personal convictions?

Well here's some scripture

 

Psalm 101:3  I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me.

 

1Chor 15:33  Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”

 

Matthew 5:29  If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell

 

Galations 5:19-21  Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

Romans 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

Matthew 6:22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light,

 

Romans 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them

 

Phillippians 4:8  Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

And as far as being holier than thou...no I dont think anyone here who is against TV means it that way...they are sharing thier thoughts.

Yes, that is definately Scripture, but in what way are you applying it?

 

If you want to give a dress code, say like the Amish, do you know that is what pleases God?

 

And what about women whose culture finds it perfectly acceptable to be naked from the waist up?  If you try to say God turns those women away, I would state that you are unequivacably

wrong.

 

You see the problem actually arises when one person tries to tell everyone else what they personally find offensive and in so doing, appear to have the impression that the rest

of Christianity should agree with that.

 

Providing verses does absoultey nothing as it is actually the HEART that God is trying to reach.  Anyone can make a set of rules as has been observed endlessly and tiresomely.

 

 

 

Phillippians 4:8  Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

 

 

I doubt that what I personally observe as just or honorable would necessairly be so for you or those who think that anyone who does not agree with the rather silly viewpoint

that National Geo photogs are nasty (or whatever was said exactly) .

 

I am firmly convinced that some people absolutely NEED to define a very narrow viewpoint in order to feel comfortable in their skin...that has nothing to do with the Word

of God and everything to do with personal experience and a failure to accept freedom in Christ...not to sin, but to relax and understand that we cannot define salvation

by rules or our own perception.

None of this has anything to do with salvation.  We are saved simply by believing, I think we all know that.  It is about avoiding anything that may cause us to stumble, or which may get in the way of living as Holy a life as we possibly can on this earth.  Not easy.  I smoke...cannot seem to break the habit, and when I do get dragged back in because my husband is also a smoker.  Something I am going to have to answer to God for.  Something that is a stumbling block to my faith.  If it were easy to quit, it would have been gone a long time ago   Does it affect my salvation...NO...does it affect other parts of my spiritual life, it sure does!

May I ask, do you thinking smoking is a sin? or is it something that you were personally convicted that you ought to stop? I have in mind something like the Spirit sanctifying us as individuals at different rates, with different individualistic focuses etc, depending upon our own weaknesses.

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

[alphaparticle]

 

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

 

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

[Fez]

 

 

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

 

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

 

I gave up over a year ago, overnight, after one prayer. I am still amazed at the awesome God we serve. All i said was "Jesus I want to give up smoking and i can't do it by myself, I need you to to help me" and He did. I smoked for 40 years until that Saturday night, never touched one again from the Sunday morning. No craving. coughing, eating, nothing. Just clear lungs and no craving. I wish i could tell people about my struggle to give up, but there wasn't one. I can tell them about Jesus though!

 

I never quit because I thought it was a sin. I did it because I was looking at stuff in my life that did not honor God, or for that matter my wife, who has never smoked. It was something , among others, I had to get out of the way.

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

 

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

 

I gave up over a year ago, overnight, after one prayer. I am still amazed at the awesome God we serve. All i said was "Jesus I want to give up smoking and i can't do it by myself, I need you to to help me" and He did. I smoked for 40 years until that Saturday night, never touched one again from the Sunday morning. No craving. coughing, eating, nothing. Just clear lungs and no craving. I wish i could tell people about my struggle to give up, but there wasn't one. I can tell them about Jesus though!

 

I never quit because I thought it was a sin. I did it because I was looking at stuff in my life that did not honor God, or for that matter my wife, who has never smoked. It was something , among others, I had to get out of the way.

 

That's pretty cool fez and what a nice burden to be free of. I haven't smoked in a couple weeks now, but really for the past few years it has tended to go from not smoking for a few months and then in the face of stress to moderate to light smoking so I figure I will not advertise myself as 'done' until I manage to stick with it for at least over a year. Perhaps I will pray about sticking to it also.

[BFP]

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

I gave up over a year ago, overnight, after one prayer. I am still amazed at the awesome God we serve. All i said was "Jesus I want to give up smoking and i can't do it by myself, I need you to to help me" and He did. I smoked for 40 years until that Saturday night, never touched one again from the Sunday morning. No craving. coughing, eating, nothing. Just clear lungs and no craving. I wish i could tell people about my struggle to give up, but there wasn't one. I can tell them about Jesus though!

 

I never quit because I thought it was a sin. I did it because I was looking at stuff in my life that did not honor God, or for that matter my wife, who has never smoked. It was something , among others, I had to get out of the way.

That is wonderful Fez! And your reason about giving up things that don't honor God is my main reason for wanting to give it up also! I have quit and had the same effect as you did, once...but months later went back to it. I guess at this point in my life I have given up on giving it up...but one day I do hope to give it up for good! It feels so good not to smoke. On the other hand I wonder if God has stuck me with it to keep me humble...because that it sure does! Ugh.

[BFP]

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

I gave up over a year ago, overnight, after one prayer. I am still amazed at the awesome God we serve. All i said was "Jesus I want to give up smoking and i can't do it by myself, I need you to to help me" and He did. I smoked for 40 years until that Saturday night, never touched one again from the Sunday morning. No craving. coughing, eating, nothing. Just clear lungs and no craving. I wish i could tell people about my struggle to give up, but there wasn't one. I can tell them about Jesus though!

 

I never quit because I thought it was a sin. I did it because I was looking at stuff in my life that did not honor God, or for that matter my wife, who has never smoked. It was something , among others, I had to get out of the way.

That's pretty cool fez and what a nice burden to be free of. I haven't smoked in a couple weeks now, but really for the past few years it has tended to go from not smoking for a few months and then in the face of stress to moderate to light smoking so I figure I will not advertise myself as 'done' until I manage to stick with it for at least over a year. Perhaps I will pray about sticking to it also.

Keep at it! Will keep you in my prayers!

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

 

No I don't think it is a sin, per say, but it is definitely not a quality. And no I have not been personally convicted by God. The public does a good enough job of that, lol. It is just one of those things that would really be a good thing Not to do. Do I fell silly at times identifying as a Christian with a cigarette hanging from my lips? I sure do! LOL

I got you there and I agree. I've struggled with smoking for over a decade now and have a similar feeling about it. I haven't been convicted by it in terms of it being sinful for me (maybe I will?), but I know it's just generally a dumb thing to do. thanks.

I gave up over a year ago, overnight, after one prayer. I am still amazed at the awesome God we serve. All i said was "Jesus I want to give up smoking and i can't do it by myself, I need you to to help me" and He did. I smoked for 40 years until that Saturday night, never touched one again from the Sunday morning. No craving. coughing, eating, nothing. Just clear lungs and no craving. I wish i could tell people about my struggle to give up, but there wasn't one. I can tell them about Jesus though!

 

I never quit because I thought it was a sin. I did it because I was looking at stuff in my life that did not honor God, or for that matter my wife, who has never smoked. It was something , among others, I had to get out of the way.

That's pretty cool fez and what a nice burden to be free of. I haven't smoked in a couple weeks now, but really for the past few years it has tended to go from not smoking for a few months and then in the face of stress to moderate to light smoking so I figure I will not advertise myself as 'done' until I manage to stick with it for at least over a year. Perhaps I will pray about sticking to it also.

Keep at it! Will keep you in my prayers!

 

thanks BFP

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

And as far as being holier than thou...no I dont think anyone here who is against TV means it that way...they are sharing thier thoughts.

Are there people who who are against tv? I am going to put anyone down for that , to each his own. But I find that to be interesting and would like to know the reasons why? There was a person in my family (he is dead now) who was against tv. He would not have on in his house and would not let his kids watch. Whenever he was over for a holiday and the tv was on, he would go off on these rants saying "that is filth, noting but filth." no matter what it was that was on.

Lol, well if it weren't for my husband I wouldn't have one in my house either. Like right now for instance..he wants my wonderful granddaughter to go to bed because he wants to watch some violent crazy show that is on. Putting a TV before family is not cool...but in this house it is a never ending occurrence. I don't watch it...neither does my daughter. There are a lot of people I know that don't have or like TV.

 

 

That does not make the person more holy than the one who does watch TV.

 

I don't care if you prefer not to watch TV...I do care if you tell me I should not watch TV .

 

Nothing we do makes us better than the next person.  That, is not salvation nor is it even a consideration.

 

We live our lives before God whether or not we acknowledge Him and ultimately, we each answer for own deeds ... the problem with a thread like this.

is that it entertains the wrong perception that not doing something in some way secures our life as Christian.  The only people who will agree with

the article are those who already agree with the article.

 

I am also convinced that some who watch TV, might be a little shocked at the attitudes of those who consider it the worst or a bad sin.

 

Thoughts count just as much or maybe more as they originate within the person.

 

Again, I am not suggesting freedom in Christ is a licence to sin.  Just the opposite.  What I am suggesting, is a better knowledge of scripture which actually

takes AWAY the desire to sin.

 

I don't believe watching tv is sinful, but I do see the dangers is poses to those who are impressionable. 

[BFP]

Many years ago now, when I first came back to Christ, my husbands old Aunt said something to me that always stuck. She said "I will never read! listen to! or watch anything that doesn't have to do with my spiritual growth in Christ". When she died, in her 80s, her eulogy was all about the proverbs 31 woman...and how her life so well lived out Proverbs 31.

The Proverbs 31 woman has always been something that I have embraced in my own life, on a daily basis. I have not perfected it by any means, but strive to be more and more what she was as I grow. For years, proverbs 31 was my devotional every morning.

Total surrender to Christ, to husband and to family...she blessed everyone she met.

It starts with what you allow in your life. It starts with what you don't allow. And I think we need to set higher expectations

That is a wonderful story. But I myself feel I can not live that way. I love to read and I read many many books. Some on faith some for simple enjoyment. I have found though that even when I am reading or watching something for simple enjoyment, I have found spiritual growth in those things.  In one syfi fantasy books I was reading for enjoyment, the author  had scriptural quotes at the top of the page of each new chapter. I guess one never knows where they are going to find God.

Well I read alot of Amish books..that is the only fiction I read most times.  The rest of my books are books to learn things from...homesteading books, simple living, farming, growing your own food kind of stuff.  Quilting, do it yourself, building...I LOVE books, and I am a researchaholic really.   I never was into scifi ...but way back when I used to love a good thriller...I cant read that stuff at all now, LOL!  I get way to freaked out and take way to much of it in for some reason.

If you are interested in the Amish people, I was just watching a video produced by the BBC about an Amish family and their life at YouTube last night.  I am not allowed to link to it, but you might find it interesting?  I agree with many of the principles they follow, but still don't get the horse and buggy thing.  It is supposed to be so they won't be filled with pride, but you can own a modest car and not become prideful.  I would imagine they could have the entire community have the same exact model car and it would accomplish the same thing?  Even so, I do respect them, and the video was interesting.

Thanks Butero

I am very much in love with the Amish way of life...it just seems so simple...but I am sure it isn't in reality...like a sailboat, so graceful and peaceful until you're sailing it! It has just always intrigued me because I am such a homesteading type to begin with. There is a lot to be learned from them and their way of life...and yes, they really guard against becoming prideful of anything, but I think more than anything, they want to be separate from the world. I can't say for sure, I'm not one of them